References and Homages

[White Rabbit]

The Blackwood sigil, a white weirwood upon a black field, has always reminded me of the coat of arms of Gondor in LOTR.

[Im no Ser]

The Fever River has shown up in at least three Martin novels:

Dance With Dragons: Davos learns that House Ryswell and House Dustin have surprised the Ironborn on the Fever River.

Fevre Dream: Centers around the Fevre River Packet Company

Armaggedon Rag: References a band called the Fevre River Packet Company

[Aedan Stormrage]

The more I read the stories the more convinced I begun that Robert Baratheon is a homage to Conan.

Compare the way the two are described: both are tall and dark haired with blue eyes.

Where does the name Robert come from anyway? Is it in fact a nod to Conan's creator Rober E Howard? And come to think of it Baratheon and Barbarian are very similar words.

Both have a fondness for wenching, drinking and eating.

Both took control of a kingdom that was run by a mad king. Both felt somewhat trapped by the responsibilities of the position.

Totally true, but it's more than just that. For example, you have the Valusia -> Valyria similarity, both great civilizations, both doomed beneath the sea.

Both Robert and Conan have blue eyes and black hair. Cimmeria is described as having "dark shadowy forests and gloomy skies", Robert's land is called the Stormlands. Both place emphasis in having gloomy skies and storms. The similarities are huge, both took a crown by force and then found it that the keeping was worse than the taking.

I think Robert Baratheon is Martin's rendition of Conan, maybe of how Conan could have ended up.

[James Arryn]

I always saw Cornwell in GRRM's stuff, but hadn't read any since discovering GOT, and just recently reread some older stuff (saxon series) and, wow...it's even clearer than I thought, some segments almost reading point for point.

[Aedan Stormrage]

Could you give any example?

[Lady Flandrensis]

I know that Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun is a reference but it keeps escaping me.

[SimonSez]

I swear every time I come across Riverrun in the books, I think of that Carly Simon song "Let the River Run." Probably just me though.

Edited September 23, 2012 by SimonSez

[Callandoril]

SPOILERS

In the first chapter of TWoW there is a line where Stannis says:

"Would that all the lords in the Seven Kingdoms had but a single neck... "

I am now in third year of high school in Croatia, and here since the first two years we learn Latin and Latin's famous phrases, there is a phrase where the Roman Emperor Caligula says(Can't find the actual quote on the internet, this is the best I can write from memory):

Would that the whole Roman nation had but a single neck.

The difference here is that Caligula wishes to kill everyone in the empire whilst Stannis wishes the same for all the lords...

Edited September 23, 2012 by shadowsc2

[Aedan Stormrage]

Yes, that's from Suetonius' account on Caligula:

He often inveighed against all the senators alike, as adherents of Sejanus and informers against his mother and brothers, producing the documents which he pretended to have burned,54 and upholding the cruelty of Tiberius as forced upon him, since he could not but believe so many accusers. He constantly tongue-lashed the equestrian order as devotees of the stage and the arena. Angered at the rabble for applauding a faction which he opposed, he cried: "I wish the Roman people had but a single neck,"

The context is quite appropriate.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Aedan Stormrage

[rmholt]

The Fever River has shown up in at least three Martin novels:

Dance With Dragons: Davos learns that House Ryswell and House Dustin have surprised the Ironborn on the Fever River.

Fevre Dream: Centers around the Fevre River Packet Company

Armaggedon Rag: References a band called the Fevre River Packet Company

Got a book order from GRRM and the package was stamped with a Fevre River Packet Company label

[rmholt]

Beatles reference: The Inn - I think it used to be the Dragon Inn - anyway it used to be on the other side of the Trident and a person could fish out their window - calls to mind the Beatles in the Edgewater Inn in Seattle fishing out their window into Elliot Bay

[Blisscraft]

I swear every time I come across Riverrun in the books, I think of that Carly Simon song "Let the River Run." Probably just me though.

I always thought that "Riverrun" was a reference to Finnigan's Wake. The first word in it is "riverrun."

[Stark in Winterfell]

What about "Darkstar" from Feast? Also the name of a Grateful Dead song. If GRRM is a fan, it is certainly an homage. Or he may of just liked the name, or it could be a coincidence. Does anyone know if George likes the Dead?

He does look a bit like Jerry Garcia in a weird hat

[Stark in Winterfell]

On Khal Drogo:

I'm rereading LoTR right now, and I was surprised to see Frodo is introduced at the Council of Elrond as Frodo, Son of Drogo

while I doubt there are many similarities between the two (badass warlord, and kindly hobbit), perhaps its still an homage?

[Aedan Stormrage]

I don't think that even counts as an homage... Drogo is a well-known name in real life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogo_of_Champagne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogo_of_Metz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogo_of_Brittany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogo_of_Mantes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogo_of_Hauteville

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Drogo

So... it's a pretty known germanic name.

[plurabel]

I always thought that "Riverrun" was a reference to Finnigan's Wake. The first word in it is "riverrun."

Yup, I got the same impression! I will actually pay more attention on my current re-read for any other Joyce nods.

[Blisscraft]

Yup, I got the same impression! I will actually pay more attention on my current re-read for any other Joyce nods.

Other than the word "Riverrun," the "monomyth" aspect of the series is a nod to Joyce. The opening line from Finnigans Wake: "riverrun, past Eve and Adams, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by commodious vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Envions. . . " The words, "commodius vicus," is a reference by Joyce to Giambattista Vico and his theory that history is cyclical; from gods to heros to men and so on and so on. The end is the beginning and the beginning the end, as the first part of the first sentence is the last part of the last sentence.

Love your name, plurabel!

[James Arryn]

Could you give any example?

Sorry, forgot I even wrote in here. They were legion and clear, but it's been long enough now that I'll have to take another look. My books are all in boxes right now (just moved) so might take a while, but they're really, really clear when you read them.

If you hear GRRM talk about Cornwell, you won't be surprised.

[Lady Flandrensis]

Beatles reference: The Inn - I think it used to be the Dragon Inn - anyway it used to be on the other side of the Trident and a person could fish out their window - calls to mind the Beatles in the Edgewater Inn in Seattle fishing out their window into Elliot Bay

Also Zep, the Edgewater is where the notorious "shark story" happened.

[evita mgfs]

Martin’s TEICHOSKOPIA, OR VIEW FROM THE WALL in DWD

Perhaps this similarity between Martin’s VIEW FROM THE WALL in DWD and Homer’s TEICHOSKOPIA in the Iliad (lines 121-244) has already been addressed – I had noted it a while back, but never took time to write it up.

In Homer’s Iliad, Book 3, Helen joins King Priam of Troy on his Trojan Wall to identify the Argive heroes as they pass; i.e., Odysseus, Menelaos, etc.

Likewise, when Tormund Thunderfist meets Jon Snow at the Wall to lead the wildlings through the gate, the Hornblower identifies the various groups as they pass: hostages [men of renowned], men from Frozen Shore, warriors, etc.

Both Helen and Tormund, through their authors, reveal more about the appearances and personalities of other characters in their works. Furthermore, Martin makes a ‘literary nod’ with irony and humor to Homer with his play on “A View from THE WALL”.

Edited September 28, 2012 by evita mgfs