Morienthar Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 For the references of the serpent eating it's own tail. Has anyone seen this as referenced to time(patterns are time I know. I mean in specific reference)? It seems odd that it is said the way it is. Especially as George makes mention of RJ so often.Arianne says the Dragon is time in AFFC,while talking of House Tolands sigil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conquered Sun Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Is the Theon/Reek transformation a homage to Smeagol/Gollum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Is the Theon/Reek transformation a homage to Smeagol/Gollum?Could be but it needs a bit of reaching,Smeagols transformation is because of his proximity and desire for the ring but Theons transformation is due to physical and mental torture by Ramsay,Unless you want to equate Ramsay with the Ring,It's a bit of stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) It's actually a reference, I think, to a main character who undergoes a long period of imprisonment and torture at the hands of a sadistic villain in a Jack Vance book. I've come across this on Google, but I forget which book. There's also, probably coincidental, similarities with Theon/Reek and Ramsay in a particularly vicious short story by Norman Partridge, called The Hollow Man. I sure hope that Martin was making a homage: so as to personally avoid claims of plagiarism, because a character of mine, Lucien Cloudsquall, eventually becomes a character called Penance after suffering much the same. Edited July 27, 2013 by The Killer Snark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conquered Sun Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Could be but it needs a bit of reaching,Smeagols transformation is because of his proximity and desire for the ring but Theons transformation is due to physical and mental torture by Ramsay,Unless you want to equate Ramsay with the Ring,It's a bit of stretch.Yeah I just realised how sketchy it sounds haha. I had a dream last night that I seen a trailer for season 4 and theon was basically Gollum haha.First thing I did when I woke up was post that. Might have been a bit rushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushroomshirt Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Is the Theon/Reek transformation a homage to Smeagol/Gollum?It's not really a stretch if you subscribe to the "Theon Durden" theory of the Hooded Man in Winterfell. (I don't subscribe to this myself but many others do). To them Theon's encounter with the Hooded man is a Theon/Reek moment similar to a Gollum/Smeagol moment.There are several threads on this topic if you have not seen them yet. Search for "Theon Durden" and I bet you will find a bunch of hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 It's not a stretch to say that Martin routinely will have multiple homages within a single character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azor Ahoy! Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 In one of Dany's earlier chapter in ADWD, when the pit fighters come to lobby for the fighting pits to be reopened, one of the fighters says:"Half, he swears it, and Hizdahr is an honorable man"Sounds like Mark Antony's speech in Julius Caesar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Spotted that as well, Winds. Martin takes bits and pieces from Shakespeare, narratively, often. Especially since it's meant to show irony and derision, the line is a deliberate direct lift. Edited July 28, 2013 by The Killer Snark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 It's actually a reference, I think, to a main character who undergoes a long period of imprisonment and torture at the hands of a sadistic villain in a Jack Vance book. I've come across this on Google, but I forget which book. Sounds like The Star King, which is the first in the Demon Princes series by Jack V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) That's the one. I've not read it, though, but Martin loves Jack Vance. Edited August 4, 2013 by The Killer Snark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 The arakhs the Dothraki carry look much like a khopesh. This may be a stretch but I wonder if Martin called the weapon an arakh because the khopesh was wielded by the sun-worshipping ancient Egyptians, and in the real world the Arakh are a people in India who at one time had worshipped the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) The arakhs the Dothraki carry look much like a khopesh. This may be a stretch but I wonder if Martin called the weapon an arakh because the khopesh was wielded by the sun-worshipping ancient Egyptians, and in the real world the Arakh are a people in India who at one time had worshipped the sun.Been my guess too,but the word Arakh may also come from the Turkish Orakh which apparently means sickle. Edited August 2, 2013 by Morienthar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 That's probably more plausible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) At the end of a spaghetti western called Django Kill, a.k.a. If You Live, Shoot, which is something of a cult classic, one of the villains gets his comeuppance when he tries to retrieve his ill-gotten gold from his house as it burns down in a fire. Well, he gets it - it's gone molten, and it pours down all over his head. When I first saw Game of Thrones I was reminded of this moment before I'd read the first book. It's my opinion Martin may have lifted it. There's also the story of a conquistador called Pedro Gutiérrez de Valdivia, who was allegedly killed by being forced to drink molten gold, and I think a Greek myth that refers to someone suffering the same. Edited August 10, 2013 by The Killer Snark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I know several people have pointed out the connection of Bran and Bran the Blessed but I think some of the details that stand out from the story are worth mentioning:The story beginning with the Irish king and his retinue arriving to arrange his marriage to Bran's sister Branwen.Branwen at first being treated well in Ireland and then being mistreated by being beaten every day. She sends a bird (little bird) to Bran asking for help.The idea about going to a magical place and living there and when leaving finding out that hundreds of years have gone by. (Bran if he stays in the cave) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Does anyone know of a precedent for Dany's horrible vision of a beautiful woman sprawled with men gnawing at her? Was a metaphor like this ever used for a country under attack or in civil war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykos Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Castellan, I think Martin took the image from norse mythology. One day, Freyja saw that the Dwarves were making a beautiful collar and she offered them both gold and silver in exchange for it. But, the Dwarves would only sell it to her in exchange for one night each with her. Freyja agreed and after four nights with the Dwarves, she returned with the beautiful collar.Here´s one of my posts about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Did the dwarves perchance have mismatched eyes? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) I have no idea if someone mentioned this, so here I go. One of the more important characters in Robin Hobb's "Tawny Man" trilogy is called Nettle and at some point she dream-rides a real dragon. According to the review of "The Princess and the Queen", GRRM's latest story which will be published in december, one of the dragonriders during the Dance was called Nettles. :) Edited August 4, 2013 by TheCrannogDweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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