References and Homages

[L'Sana]

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I was watching the history channel show on Thermopylae, and I was wondering if anyone else had noticed the similarities between the Spartans and the Unsullied. Both in general, and specifically the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae and the 3000 Unsullied at Qoroth. Numbers off by a factor of 10, but still seemed very close.

[The Wolf Maid]

Sparta = Unsullied

(is this battle the same as the one in the movie 300?)

[L'Sana]

(is this battle the same as the one in the movie 300?)

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

It's a bit of a longshot--largely because he's something of an archetype--but Tywin, the preeminent nobleman of his age, bears a passing resemblence to Edward I of England.

Both were the sons of unworthy fathers who squandered the wealth, honor and power of their families. And both managed to not only undo the damage their fathers inflicted, but to make their families even greater than before.

Both are famed for being brilliant and ruthless, talented generals and the foremost legal and political minds of their time.

Both are amazingly vigorous in their old age.

Both are handsome men, but cold and with a slight physical peculiarity that gives rise to jokes and nicknames that one does not say in their presence.

Both treat their children rather harshly, more like chess pieces than an as beloved offspring.

Both fight wars with their northern neighbors which they win through superior cunning and by sowing treachery among their rivals' followers. Both rivals are cruelly mutilated upon their death.

Both die in the midst of a war, leaving it to their less competent offspring to handle. (Though Edward II was a much better ruler than Cersei, it must be acknowledged.)

Edited March 29, 2007 by Rhialto the Marvellous

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

^ I agree but would add that both had a true a deep love for there wives of couse Tywin does not have a grandson that takes after him yet

Walter Tirel also spelled Tyrell shot the arrow the kill king willam II of England does that mean somethingh :leaving:

Edited April 8, 2007 by serdog

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

An excellent point. Also, Edward I was, if I recall correctly, often referred to as the Panther, much as Tywin (like all Lannisters) is compared so constantly to lions.

Another one--Maegor the Cruel seems to be another combination figure. Much as his father seems to blend William the Conquerer with China's Quin Shi Huang, Maegor seems like a combination of two much despised monarchs of England--William II Rufus, and John I. Both of them were hard men who quarrelled with the faith, which resulted in terrible reputations.

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

It a Little too bad there no five year gap I would have love to see Tommen pull an Edward III stroming the red keep with a hand full of knight to place mommy dearest under arest and hang her lovers

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

He might just get his chance. The Faith seems to like Tommen. It's just Mommy Dearest they have a problem with.

Also, the Maegery situation smacks of Anne Boelyn's--held on trumped up adultery charges. And she's got a pinch of Catherine of Aragon as well...

[driftwood]

I was surprized that no one notice a Dostoyevski reference. At Tywin's funeral when his body started to stink from decay was very similar to the scene in "The Brothers Karamazov" when the Zosima the elder that Aloyosha was mentored by smells at his funeral. Everyone tries to ignore the smell, but it eventually gets unbearable in Karamazov. Dostoyevski meant it a commentary on the beleif in Russia that holy men do not decay when they die, but the smell of Zosima's body calls into question amonst the masses all of the prior good that he had done for the people of the town.

Tywin's simmilar decay at his funeral could be an indication that King's landing and the realm will soon forget any positive things that the Lannister's have done for them. But the way it was described in Feast was very similar to Dostoyevski's description.

[ammtroll]

In AGoT, during the Hands Torney, there is a reference to a shield painted with a Black Adder... having asked GRRM, he has confirmed that he is a huge fan of BA, particularly the first season... which starts with the death of Richard III...

[Nightrider]

In ASOS when Jaime is going through the book recording past Lord Commanders, there is a mention of Lord Commander Duncan the Tall, a clear reference to Hedge Knight.

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

Quite a few interesting parallels here...

Janos Slynt shares a great many things with Thomas Cromwell--except of course, for the latter's genius. Both are fat, ugly, the sons of butchers who gain titles for their willingness to do a king's business, and lose them just as quickly. (So now we just wait for his son to close down the puppet shows in King's Landing and for his grandson to overthrow the monarchy and establish a Lord Protectorate. ;) )

Pycelle's large and luxurious beard may refer to Archbishop Thomas Cranmer's, which he started growing on Henry VIII's death.

Edited May 5, 2007 by Rhialto the Marvellous

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

Oliver was tomas's sister great grandson not his :)

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

I knew that, actually. I was just trying to convey Westeros's weird "sort-of, kind of England" history.

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

I knew that, actually. I was just trying to convey Westeros's weird "sort-of, kind of England" history.

[Winter Is Coming Podcast]

[*]"... black hood, blue beetle, and green arrow": A reference to comic books, specifically the Archie comics superhero the Black Hood and the DC Comics heroes Blue Beetle and Green Arrow.

SPOILER: AFfC

A variation on this appeared where the black hood was replaced by thunderbolts, which has been speculated to be a reference to the DC Characters the Flash (who is, with the Blue Beetle and Green Arrow, a member of the Justice League of America) and/or Johnny Thunderbolt of the Justice Society of America.

[snake]

Don't know if this was a reference but Tommen and Thomas of Eyes of the Dragon are similar, IMO. Both are short, round and not very intelligent. Both surplant brothers who were more attractive and regal looking. Both were ruled by an evil counsellor.

I know they're not the same but the similarities are there.

[LindaElane]

Erm..I didn't read them all, just the first 20 or so.

Has anyone mentioned the rather obvious one. Stark = York, Lannister = Lancaster.

(And other WotR stuff.)

[bowlwoman]

Janos Slynt shares a great many things with Thomas Cromwell--except of course, for the latter's genius. Both are fat, ugly, the sons of butchers who gain titles for their willingness to do a king's business, and lose them just as quickly.

Edited May 28, 2007 by bowlwoman

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

Another great Semi-Tudor one is that Robert= Henery VIII change in middle age when Henery was young he was a 6 foot tall dashing Knight in grand Amour and great dancer who was know to Favour a number of the Emperor kinswoman with dancing.

While were at Lannister= Plantchents Cersei= Isabella the She Wolf(I know it a little funny think of that) who with her lover muder for husband and later show her self to be an grossly unfit ruler while her son was under age