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don't know. but if you ever read Martin's Armageddon Rag, I think there are some suggestions there EDIT: there's a "dedication". "Rag" was the name of a Robert Hunter song and ASOFI does have Dire Wolves, please don't murder me.

heh: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/..._Twilight_Zone/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=20095

Direwolf, Darkstar and Mountains of the Moon. There may be more Grateful Dead references. Glad I am not the only one who noticed.

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Here's a self-reference.

"Starlady" is one of GRRM's SF short stories from the late 1970s (it appeared in the 1984 collection "Sandkings" and was re-released in 2008 as part of another compilation, "Starlady and Fast-Friend.") The protagonist of that story is an unsavory pimp named Hairy Hal.

Hairy Hal shows up in the ASOIAF series as a Night's Watch soldier... an extra, really, but he is mentioned by name a few times, including (IIRC) during the battle for Castle Black against the Magnar's raiders in ASOS.

In an alternate universe, the Night's Watch is very likely where the pimp from "Starlady" would have ended up. I thought it was kind of funny.

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How about in AFFC, in the first Cersei chapter when she is complaining about the "SPOILER" smile on Tywin's corpse how Pycelle is useless she says "That man is as useless as nipples on a breastplate" Could this be an illusion to the nipplegate that hounded the Batman movies? (Batman and Robin I believe) where they had nipples on their armor and fans and critics everywhere ridiculed the film for it? I think there's a good possibility...

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I've only read the first fourteen pages, so this might be a disappointing first post. :D But it nonetheless inspired me to register after several months of lurking and reading these incredible books. So here goes...

Rodrigo Borgia, aka Pope Alexander IV, aka the one the Papacy wants you to forget about (although they've created a few of those in recent history too, but I digress...).

At the end of the 15th century, he tried to pull a rug over some of the considerable mess he'd created in Italy by declaring peace with Naples. The Milanese duke, Ludovico Sforza, wasn't the rightful duke at the time but was a friend of the Pope (his daddy was, anyway). So he needed the help of French king Charles VIII to defend against the Naples-backed rightful Duke whose name escapes me. Anyway, this is unimportant.

To galvanise this new peace treaty, he married off his son to King Ferdinand of Naples' granddaughter. Their names? Giuffre and Dona Sancha. Not too dissimilar from another pair of betrothed offspring from two warring nations... Although the circumstances of their betrothal (and indeed their war) were admittedly very, very different.

I'm not sure of any other inspirations from the Italian Renaissance in ASOIAF yet (but I've only read 3/4 of the first book and am only starting to learn properly about the Renaissance period, so...), but I noticed this one right away.

Edited by Dragonreaver

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Actually, I think GRRM was asked about that one in particular, and he said it's just coincidence. Or, alternatively, one can suppose it was an unconscious borrowing rather than something he was aware of. :)

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Any one notice the references to the play Richard III. Such as Tyrell (the knight who murdered the princes) and Tyrion's stature as a deformed schemer (Richard III), the death of the prince with the deformeed schemer being blamed (truthfuly or in Tyrion's case untruthfully). The execution of the hand of the king (Eddard and lord Hastings). And obsessive crazy mothers who obsess over their kids (Cersei and queen Eliza Grey).

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Along the same lines as "Jordayne of House Tor":

Merrit o' Moontown (a Brotherhood Without Banners guy) is obviously a reference to the legendary fantasy writer A. Merritt, whose most famous novel is "The Moon Pool".

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Any one notice the references to the play Richard III.

As the plot of the series is heavily built upon the Wars of the Roses (confirmed by GRRM himself, I think), this isn't too far-fetched. I think it was even said somewhere that Tyrion is Richard III as portrayed by Shakespeare and Stannis is Richard III as seen by modern historians.

Cersei IMO has a touch of Shakespeare's Richard III too, as far as "alienating or murdering all your former allies until you're alone and no one will help you" goes.

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... I think it was even said somewhere that Tyrion is Richard III as portrayed by Shakespeare ...

Littlefinger is closest to Richard III as portrayed by Shakespeare. Littlefinger isn't deformed, but his character and aims are spot on.

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I dont know if this has been suggested earlier but anyway here it goes:

In AFFC (page 780) Brienne on seeing hanged men says: "On the gallows tree, all men are brothers". Brienne had read that in a book, though she could not recall which one. Could this passage be a reference to the 15th century French poet François Villon? And more specifically to Ballade des pendus?

François Villon

And

Ballade des pendus (with english translation)

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From A Feast for Crows (don't know what page, as this is from my Kindle version):

Maester Luwin had taught them about Braavos, but Arya had forgotten much of what he'd said. It was a flat city, she could see that even from afar, not like King's Landing on its three high hills. The only hills here were the ones that men had raised of brick and granite, bronze and marble. Something else was missing as well, though it took her a few moments to realize what it was. The city has no walls. But when she said as much to Denyo, he laughed at her. "Our walls are made of wood and painted purple," he told her. "Our galleys are our walls. We need no other."

In the Persian wars, there was a prophecy about the "wooden walls" of Athens protecting the city. But a politician/general named Themistocles said that the wooden walls that would protect the city would be a (wooden) fleet. He used pretty much the entire city's funds to build his fleet, and while the famed Three Hundred slowed the Persian army at Thermopylae, Themistocles' navy defeated the Persians, saving Athens (and most of Greece)--and fulfilling the prophecy.

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From A Feast for Crows (don't know what page, as this is from my Kindle version):

Maester Luwin had taught them about Braavos, but Arya had forgotten much of what he'd said. It was a flat city, she could see that even from afar, not like King's Landing on its three high hills. The only hills here were the ones that men had raised of brick and granite, bronze and marble. Something else was missing as well, though it took her a few moments to realize what it was. The city has no walls. But when she said as much to Denyo, he laughed at her. "Our walls are made of wood and painted purple," he told her. "Our galleys are our walls. We need no other."

In the Persian wars, there was a prophecy about the "wooden walls" of Athens protecting the city. But a politician/general named Themistocles said that the wooden walls that would protect the city would be a (wooden) fleet. He used pretty much the entire city's funds to build his fleet, and while the famed Three Hundred slowed the Persian army at Thermopylae, Themistocles' navy defeated the Persians, saving Athens (and most of Greece)--and fulfilling the prophecy.

I think it's Crete references. They were on island, have not walls because thought their ships were enough to defend them. Although Braavos has multiple temples and masive statue (Athena).

Edited by Evangeline Nin-Morgan

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I think it's Crete references. They were on island, have not walls because thought their ships were enough to defend them. Although Braavos has multiple temples and masive statue (Athena).

Maybe Braavos is the equivalent of Crete (or Rhodes, with the Colossus/Titan). Herodotus liked to link things together, so he might have been giving a wink to Crete/Rhodes. Dunno. But those "wooden walls" are from Themistocles' interpretation of a prophecy.

...On further research, one of Themistocles' naval battles against Xerxes took place in the straights of Artemisium, where a large sunken bronze statue was found.

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I'm pretty sure that Braavos is primarily based on Venice: the canals, the origin, the naval strength, the Arsenal which theoretically can build a galley in a day, and the (relative) religious tolerance all remind me of (what little I know about) Venetian history.

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How about in AFFC, in the first Cersei chapter when she is complaining about the "SPOILER" smile on Tywin's corpse how Pycelle is useless she says "That man is as useless as nipples on a breastplate" Could this be an illusion to the nipplegate that hounded the Batman movies? (Batman and Robin I believe) where they had nipples on their armor and fans and critics everywhere ridiculed the film for it? I think there's a good possibility...

Ha!, I thought the same thing.

I haven't gone over the full 23 pages of this thread so maybe this has been posted before but there were 2 references that I thought might be related.

One was of Arya after she was become the 'Cat of the Canals'. The line, repeated a couple of times in aFfC, about her pushing her barrel of seafood through the streets of Braavos shouting cockles and clams, etc was eerily similar to the James Yorkston

Irish drinking song Molly Malone; especially the lyrics:

"As she wheel'd her wheel barrow

Through streets broad and narrow

Crying cockles and mussels alive, alive o!"

This makes me nervous if the rest of the song were to come to fruition:

"She died of a fever

And no one could save her

And that was the end of sweet Molly Malone."

Another point of reference is about the Night's Watchman Dareon. He is the one that goes with Sam & Maester Aemon to Braavos and is killed by Arya. Sometimes I feel that he is a reference to the singer Johnny Cash. Mostly because I once read an article where his voice is described as 'honey poured over thunder', which is the exact same description GRRM uses to describe Dareon's singing voice. Also, Dareon of course is a singer & man in black and Johnny Cash is a singer and the man in black.

Their similarities end there howerver. Dareon is fair haired and hazel eyed. Cash is dark haired and brown eyed. Also, Dareon is a douche and Cash rules all.

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I always found Westeros to be somewhat similar in shape to Great Britain. Also, there is a wall in northern England called "Hadrian's wall", built by the romans for unknown purposes apparently. The text says the economic viability of constructing and constantly manning a 72 mile long boundary along a sparsely populated border to stop small-scale raiding is dubious. Which is similar to something I believe Lord Commander Mormont says "You don't build a wall 700 feet high to keep out raiders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall

Westeros being England would further support the theory about the english king reference with Aegon the Conqueror.

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Westeros being England would further support the theory about the english king reference with Aegon the Conqueror.

Plus it fits the references to the Wars of the Roses. If we map England to Westeros, the locations of Lancaster and York coincide quite well with the seats of houses Lannister and Stark.

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Plus it fits the references to the Wars of the Roses. If we map England to Westeros, the locations of Lancaster and York coincide quite well with the seats of houses Lannister and Stark.

Nice catch. I looked at Lancaster and thought of the similarity with "Lannister" and the location to the west, but didnt think further of it. York/Stark is also a bit similar.

Interesting to note: There is an area to the north in England called Northumberland.

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Maybe a little stretch but name "Aeron" might be in the case of Drowned man (and brother to his people´s leader) a reference to biblical Aron (don´t know if there are more Aerons in ASOIAF).

Edited by Rhodan

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