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References and Homages

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Theodre Illion's Darkness Over Tibet has some paralels with dance and if I ever figure out the spoiler box I'll explain myself.

Should that not be an option on the toolbar? It would save a lot of ranting and more importantly prevent anyone getting the story bollocksd.

Edited by Ser Tom

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Guy finds a sorta sith group of monks living underground, they're trying to take over the world using astral projection/ meditation and he later finds out they fed him human flesh. seems a lot brans arc to me

Think I might have finally figured out the spoiler, if not I'm going to start banging my keyboard with my fists like an angry monkey.

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I have really enjoyed going through this entire thread--all 31 pages of it--as I have enjoyed reading the five volumes of this series. I await the publication of the last two volumes with breathless impatience--I want to know what happens next NOW!

While reading the story, I could not help but notice the multiple references to the Wars of the Roses. Of course, the Lannisters are the Lancastrians; the Starks are the Yorks; Ned is Richard, Duke of York/a much more honest and honourable William Hastings; Catelyn is very like Cicely; Robb reminds me of the young Edward IV/Edmund, Earl of Rutland--his military prowess and death at a young age; Jeyne could be Eleanor Talbot/Elizabeth Woodwille, who both came from families that supported the Lancastrian Henry VI; Sansa is Anne of York, who was married to Henry Holland, Earl of Exeter, a Lancastrian supporter, whom she eventually divorced to wed Thomas St Leger, who supported her brothers; the Tyrells reminded me of the Tudors (the roses helped), whereas Margaery with her several husbands reminded me of Margaret Beaufort, who was married at least three or four times and had one son at an early age. However, Dany, when she first appears in the story, bears a stronger resemblance to Margaret Beaufort--her age (13+), the kind of man she marries (a warrior--Edmund Tudor was a soldier twice the age of his wife) and the fact that the marriage was arranged by her brother to win a crown (Henry VI, who was a distant cousin, wanted to bring the two branches of his family together to support him). However, by the time AGoT ends, she is more like the young Elizabeth I, ready and eager to take the throne. And her responses to the men around her are very Elizabethan! Again, note the fact that when Henry VII arrived in England, he carried the Welsh dragon banner--and he claimed descent from King Arthur! When you look at Stannis, he is not just Richard III as described by the historians (Tyrion is Richard III as described by Shakespeare) but also Humphrey Duke of Gloucester, whose wife, Eleanor, was accused of witchcraft and imprisoned on the Isle of Man. Tyrion again, also shows shades of Anthony Woodwille (his love of books) whereas Jaime has the more 'knightly' aspects of the Woodwilles, Anthony and Edward (the latter was a bit of a knight errant!). Cersei reminded me strongly of Margaret of Anjou/Elizabeth Woodwille/Margaret Beaufort, especially in relation to her children/sons. Jon Snow reminded me of John of Gloucester, Richard III's bastard son, who was executed for receiving a letter from Ireland. Robert Baratheon is of course, the older Edward IV.

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This is probably just a coincidence but he mentions that King Aerys's fingernails grew to be nine inches long. Is it a stretch to think he might be a Trent Reznor fan? Probably. Also if you watch the old 80's movie Dragonslayer you will find a lot of the characters have ASOIAF names like Tyrion and Valyria and so forth. There are my high-fallutin literary references.

Thirty pages late but I assumed the long nail thing is a reference to Howard Hughes, inventor, business man, aviator and lunatic.

He was known not to cut his nails for years at a time.

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Don't know if this was mentioned. I know I posted the idea in another, unrelated, thread.

The allusion of Bran "creeping along the weirwood tree network" and the sense of Bran becoming a sort of anachronistic hacker/ 'net stalker is marvelous. I don't seriously think GRRM intended such, but, it harkens, to me at least, of Barbara (Batgirl) Gordon becoming Oracle after she became disabled.

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I'm pretty sure that Braavos is primarily based on Venice: the canals, the origin, the naval strength, the Arsenal which theoretically can build a galley in a day, and the (relative) religious tolerance all remind me of (what little I know about) Venetian history.

For Braavos homage, I'd go with Holland, over Venice. Amsterdam is filled with canals; it had a long ship going history (many colonies in places like Java and so forth); and is famous for its religious tolerance. Fought several wars to be free from the Spanish/Italian dominated Catholic Church. Now, we don't see the Braavosi riding bikes but apparently they are not invented yet.

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There's also a Castle Rock in New Mexico...not a real castle, a landmark that looks like a castle in a mountain, I think.  I remember driving by it when I lived there ten years ago.  The Scotland reference may be more realistic, but Martin does live in Santa Fe.

Also somewhat near Santa Fe is Castle Rock, Colorado. Surely G.R.R.M. has driven by it on the way to Denver. There is a large rock overlooking the town that looks unsurprisingly like a castle.

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Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but there's this passage in ADWD :

One blast, thought Jon Snow. Rangers returning.

Then it came again. The sound seemed to fill the cellar. "Two blasts", said Mully.

Black brothers, northmen, free folk, Thenns, queen's men, all of the fell quiet, listening. Five heartbeats passed. Ten. Twenty. Then Owen the Oaf tittered, and Jon Snow could breathe again. "Two blasts," he announced, "Wildlings." Val.

Tormund Giantsbane had come at last.

Compare to this passage from the Return of the King :

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing.

Rohan had come at last.

Though there are a few differences between Tormund and Théoden :laugh:

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Haven't read all 31 pages so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but in AFFC there are a few very obvious references to the wars of the roses.

There is a chapter from the POV of Arianne entitled "The Princess in the Tower." This refers to the princes in the tower from Richard III's reign in England.

Some chapter in AFFC (I think it was an Arys one) ended by mentioning a kingsguard knight from The Dance with Dragons who was called the Kingmaker. This is a reference to the Earl of Warwick in Shakespeare's Henry VI plays. who was also called the Kingmaker because throughout the course of the Wars of the Roses he switched sides many times, and whoever he supported generally had the crown.

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House Tudbury is an obvious reference to Thomas Tudbury of Wild Cards fame. A.K.A. "The Great and Powerful Turtle".

Although I'm not sure it was actually mentioned in the books yet. Maybe it is only a Citadels thing?

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Did anyone catch that Lysa Tully's long string of failed pregnancies are similar to Queen Anne of Britian's? The only difference is that Lysa had a child survive longer than a few days.

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I'm relatively new to fantasy, but evidently LOTR (don't ever throw things in wells) and Dune (the father will perish in the first book) came to my mind as reference and hommage. As well as the direwolfs in relation to the daemons in His Dark Materials. Some Harry Potter popped up (the Snapes are not bad to the core and the Dumbledores have their own agendas; if wou mess with your death your soul is severely damaged). I thought that there are obvious references and hommages to the Robert Frost poem in the plot, in many ways. Strangely I have not found anything about this in interviews, but I have not read, seen and listened to all in So Spake Martin. This is a nice thread, by the way.

Edited by FanTasy

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The Norse god of fertility is Freyja, not Frey.

True, Frey is the god of light rains and the harvest in general, but this has little to do with House Frey, meanwhile Freyja is Frey's sister. This could still very well be a reference.

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I love the possible reference to Valyria as the Roman Empire (Republic at the time) in Hizdahr's chambers, where a tapestry shows the defeated Valyrian soldiers passing beneath the yoke.

Although it was first done to the Romans by the Samnite army, the event after a defeat against the Helvetii was actually immortalized in a painting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charles_Gleyre_Les_Romans_p.jpg

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Not sure if this has been picked up before but i didn't catch it, in aDWD;

the politline surrounding Aegon is very similar to an episode in Russian history. Boris Godunov was in a similar position to Hand of the King, and was alleged to have ordered the murder of the Tsar's nephew, Dimitri, and upon the Tsars death succeeded the throne. (Kind of similar to Robert's Rebellion although i realise its not quite the same.) Where it becomes interesting however, is that following Boris/Robert's death (over fifteen years later, similar timeline) a civil war erupts where a prince claiming to be Dimitri invades from Poland, and eventually claims the throne. This is pretty similar (IMO) to Aegon's current conquest of Westeros. Its interesting that historians currently believe that the Dimitri was (in order or likelihood); a pretender who was raised to believe he was the true Dimitri, an out-and-out liar, or actually the Prince Dimitri. Perhaps further proof for the speculation elsewhere that Aegon is a normal child raised to believe he is Aegon V?

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Not sure if this has been picked up before but i didn't catch it, in aDWD;

the politline surrounding Aegon is very similar to an episode in Russian history. Boris Godunov was in a similar position to Hand of the King, and was alleged to have ordered the murder of the Tsar's nephew, Dimitri, and upon the Tsars death succeeded the throne. (Kind of similar to Robert's Rebellion although i realise its not quite the same.) Where it becomes interesting however, is that following Boris/Robert's death (over fifteen years later, similar timeline) a civil war erupts where a prince claiming to be Dimitri invades from Poland, and eventually claims the throne. This is pretty similar (IMO) to Aegon's current conquest of Westeros. Its interesting that historians currently believe that the Dimitri was (in order or likelihood); a pretender who was raised to believe he was the true Dimitri, an out-and-out liar, or actually the Prince Dimitri. Perhaps further proof for the speculation elsewhere that Aegon is a normal child raised to believe he is Aegon V?

How about Aegon=Lambert Simnel.

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Stannis and his posse had a nasty connection with certain Adolf Hitler and Nazis, with their "One god, one land, one king" chant, and remembering Nazis with their "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer". Really gave me goosebumps. Hopefully, if Stannis is alive and kicking, he does not go all genocide on the northmen.

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