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References and Homages

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ok so this is a reverse refference. IN Avatar: The last airbender Sokka forges a sword from a meteor. It's fucking Dawn.

Swords forged from meteors are pretty common all over the genre.

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I think we are deviating a little from the idea of this thread. The idea is to find relatively plausible references or homages to other works or authors, not to look for any kind of similarity to anything else... that's just trivia...

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ok so this is a reverse refference. IN Avatar: The last airbender Sokka forges a sword from a meteor. It's fucking Dawn.

Or Excalibur.

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For me, the Night's Watch always brought to mind the Knights Templar. Both were formed ostensibly to guard something (The Wall, the Holy Sepulchre). Both were sworn to take no part in the wars of others. Both wore the color black as part of their heraldry. And perhaps most importantly, both swore vows before their God or gods of poverty, chastity and obedience. And both were well equiped compared to most contemporary armed forces. Neither include any levy soldiers, armed only with farming implement and the like.

Interestingly, it's said that the Templars (and the rest of the military orders as well) vow of obedience made them a far more effective fighting force than most, due to the fact that feudal armies of the day, be they christian or muslim tended to be less than well disciplined. It's easy to see a similar dynamic in the Watch's conflicts with the wildlings. The wildlings are described as being fierce fighters but lacking the Watch's discipline.

I think it's likely that Martin used certain aspects of the Templars and other military orders when conceptualizing the Watch, There are far to many similarities to be otherwise.

Actually, it was the Hospitallers who wore black(with white crosses). The Templars wore white with red crosses. They remind me more of the militant groups of the Faith (can't quite remember what they're called atm) than the Watch.

Also, I'm convinced Jaime is at least partly based on Richard I. Spends a lot of time away from home, knighted at a young age, both extremely good with a sword.

Both captured on their way home from war.

Both have dubious relationships - Richard I is rumoured to have at least been bi - with the king of France, which is all fun and games.

And the most obvious link? Richard the Lionheart.

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SPOILER WARNING: DUNE!!!

For Ned Stark read Duke Leto Atreides -- from the first Dune novel -- his character arc is the same:

Hero patriarch of honourable House -- takes family to an unfamiliar place to take on important responsibility -- is betrayed by rival not-so-honourable House

Then his son undergoes journey of transformation like the Stark children seem to be doing

Dune ends with a revolution leading to a new dictatorship

Will the ending of ASoIaF end with the opposite -- a republic-- like the one the ancient romans were always pining for?

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SPOILER WARNING: DUNE!!!

For Ned Stark read Duke Leto Atreides -- from the first Dune novel -- his character arc is the same:

Hero patriarch of honourable House -- takes family to an unfamiliar place to take on important responsibility -- is betrayed by rival not-so-honourable House

Then his son undergoes journey of transformation like the Stark children seem to be doing

Dune ends with a revolution leading to a new dictatorship

Will the ending of ASoIaF end with the opposite -- a republic-- like the one the ancient romans were always pining for?

You forgot the part about secret Harconnons/Targs [sic] in Dune as well.

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This one is a bit tenuous, admittedly, but my dad noticed it and I was pleasantly surprised by the parallel.

When Khal Drogo crowns Viserys with a hot pot with melted gold, it's very similar to the way that Ayesha, She Who Must Be Obeyed from the H. Rider Haggard Story "She" kills her enemies and servants who disappoint her: she places a red-hot iron pot over their heads.

this also happened in history, I'll need to look it up but in one of dan carlin's hardcore history podcasts he talks about someone who had molten gold poured into their eyes and ears, pretty sure it was in the series about the fall of the roman republic.

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Where does it say Excalibur was forged from meteor?

Sorry, just saw this. Several variations of the legend, including Jack Whyte's series.

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this also happened in history, I'll need to look it up but in one of dan carlin's hardcore history podcasts he talks about someone who had molten gold poured into their eyes and ears, pretty sure it was in the series about the fall of the roman republic.

Yes, this has happened in history. There are at least a few recorded cases of notable people being forced to drink molten gold, etc or having molten gold poured over them, off the top of my head I can't remember any specific cases around the fall of the Republic but there were some around the fall of the Empire (among the Mongols, I think, which would seem like another Dothraki link.)

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Yes, this has happened in history. There are at least a few recorded cases of notable people being forced to drink molten gold, etc or having molten gold poured over them, off the top of my head I can't remember any specific cases around the fall of the Republic but there were some around the fall of the Empire (among the Mongols, I think, which would seem like another Dothraki link.)

Yeah it seems it was Valerian he was talking about, so it was the Empire. Could that Valyria also be a reference to that? A little tenuous I know, but they sound very similar.

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Yeah it seems it was Valerian he was talking about, so it was the Empire. Could that Valyria also be a reference to that? A little tenuous I know, but they sound very similar.

Seems very possible.

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this also happened in history, I'll need to look it up but in one of dan carlin's hardcore history podcasts he talks about someone who had molten gold poured into their eyes and ears, pretty sure it was in the series about the fall of the roman republic.

I don't know who Dan Carlin is. But the guy you remember dying in this way is probably Marcus Licinius Crassus (c. 115-53 BC). One of the most influential politicians in Rome, Crassus felt increasingly overshadowed by the military conquests and glory of his allies Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (106-48 BC) and Gaius Julius Caesar (100-44 BC). Seeking conquests of his own, Crassus led a Roman army in invading the Parthian Empire. The poorly planned expedition resulted in the Battle of Carrhae (53 BC), where 20,000 legionnaires were killed and about 10,000 others were captured.

Crassus was killed shortly following the lost battle. There are a couple of contradictory accounts of the manner of his death. But the most famous mentions that he was captured alive by the Parthians. The Parthians then supposedly poured molten gold into his mouth. Their reply to Crassus' thirst for wealth.

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I don't know who Dan Carlin is. But the guy you remember dying in this way is probably Marcus Licinius Crassus (c. 115-53 BC). One of the most influential politicians in Rome, Crassus felt increasingly overshadowed by the military conquests and glory of his allies Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (106-48 BC) and Gaius Julius Caesar (100-44 BC). Seeking conquests of his own, Crassus led a Roman army in invading the Parthian Empire. The poorly planned expedition resulted in the Battle of Carrhae (53 BC), where 20,000 legionnaires were killed and about 10,000 others were captured.

Crassus was killed shortly following the lost battle. There are a couple of contradictory accounts of the manner of his death. But the most famous mentions that he was captured alive by the Parthians. The Parthians then supposedly poured molten gold into his mouth. Their reply to Crassus' thirst for wealth.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten this one! Good catch!

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