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References and Homages

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The arrival of the ancient Targaryens from the East following the Doom of Valyria is clearly modelled on the arrival of the Dunedain from the West following the sinking of Numenor, IMO, having just finished the appendices to LotR.


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I agree on that Targaryen/Dunedain parallel eps as the number three is involved, Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya, Elendil/Isildur/Anarion. Of course, the Númenoreans dud not really conquer anything, a lot of the land they occupied was not settled; the Targaryens took over preexisting kingdoms and a state structure ready to be ruled.


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I couldn't find this one, but I'm convinced it's a nod, so:

"Corn, " cried the raven. "Corn, corn. "

"Roast raven," Jon suggested. "And half a pint of ale." Having a steward fetch and serve for him still felt strange; not long ago, it would have been him fetching breakfast for Lord Commander Mormont.

"Three corns and one roast raven," said Dolorous Edd. "Very good, m'lord, only Hobb's made boiled eggs, black sausage, and apples stewed with prunes.

-aDwD ch 3

Driftwood: What have we got for dinner?

Steward: Anything you like, sir. You might have some tomato juice, orange juice, grape juice, pineapple juice...

Driftwood: Hey - turn off the juice before I get electrocuted. All right, let me have one of each. And, uh, two fried eggs, two poached eggs, two scrambled eggs, and two medium-boiled eggs.

Fiorello (requested through the door): And two hard-boiled eggs.

Driftwood: And two hard-boiled eggs.

Tomasso (signaling another egg order with his horn honk): HONK!

Driftwood: Make that three hard-boiled eggs...and, uh, some roast beef: rare, medium, well-done, and overdone.

Fiorello (repeating his order): And two hard-boiled eggs.

Driftwood: And two hard-boiled eggs.

Tomasso: HONK (signaling an amended order)!

Driftwood: Make that three hard-boiled eggs....and, uh, eight pieces of French pastry.

Fiorello (repeating his order): And two hard-boiled eggs.

Driftwood: And two hard-boiled eggs.

Tomasso: HONK!

Driftwood: Make that three hard-boiled eggs.

Tomasso: HONK! (a shorter honk)

Driftwood: And one duck egg. Uh, have you got any stewed prunes?

Steward: Yes, sir.

Driftwood: Well, give 'em some black coffee, that'll sober 'em up!

The Marx Brothers' A Night at the Opera

Edited by Kingmonkey

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Re LotR: has anyone mentioned the similarities between 'halfling' and 'halfman' before, or between the aliases 'Underhill' and 'Underfoot'? I already mentioned months ago that 'Tirion' was an elven kingdom, near Lorien I believe.


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Re LotR: has anyone mentioned the similarities between 'halfling' and 'halfman' before, or between the aliases 'Underhill' and 'Underfoot'? I already mentioned months ago that 'Tirion' was an elven kingdom, near Lorien I believe.

Tirion on Tuna (with a funny accent thing on the u) was the Elven city in Valinor

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The last few moles were still making the long climb, Jon saw, urged on by his brothers. Grenn was carrying a little boy in his arms, while Pyp, two flights below, let an old man lean upon his shoulder. The oldest villagers still waited below for the cage to make its way back down to them. He saw a mother pulling along two children, one on either hand, as an older boy ran past her up the steps. Two hundred feet above them, Sky Blue Su and Lady Meliana (who was no lady, all her friends agreed) stood on a landing, looking south. They had a better view of the smoke than he did, no doubt. Jon wondered about the villagers who had chosen not to flee. There were always a few, too stubborn or too stupid or too brave to run, a few who preferred to fight or hide or bend the knee. Maybe the Thenns would spare them.

Jon VII, Storm

Melian, the lady grey and dark from The Silmarillion?

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Sansa lies that she had a dream about Joffrey hunting a white hart. Jeyne asks her if the animal was tame and approached Joffrey, and he did it no harm, as in the legends of heroes, and Sansa says that Joffrey killed it.



Adonis was warned by Aphrodite before a hunt not to attack an animal that neither ran from him nor attacked him. He sees a boar that does not run but does not attack him, and he tries to scare it away repeatedly. Eventually he angers the boar and it castrates him with it's tusks. The boar was secretly being controlled by Ares.



Lots of obvious parallels here with Joffrey and other Baratheons.


Edited by Mitt Baratheon

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I see a slight bit of Prospero in Shakespeare's Tempest in Rodrik the Reader. an old man who lives in his books. Prospero is much more powerful though. and a magician.


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So this thread is a collection of all the books/TV shows/movies that Georgie boy has ripped off from?? :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


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So this thread is a collection of all the books/TV shows/movies that Georgie boy has ripped off from?? :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

It appears to be mostly people who don't recognize common themes, cliches, and turns of phrase because they haven't read much non-genre fiction, and then thinking that ASoIaF is referring directly to other books that use the same phrasing. Then there's a lot of people thinking it's referring to television shows or other genre fiction when actually both the books and the other media are referring to the same classical stories that the poster is unaware of. There's a few posts of people picking up on legitimate obvious homages and literary references...for instance, I wouldn't say that GRRM is "ripping off" the Greek myths of Adonis, Ares, and Aphrodite, but I think he's probably very aware of how he's echoing themes and imagery from it.

Edited by Mitt Baratheon

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Not sure if this has cropped up, lots of posts here and the search gets clumsy, but Lord Gormon Peake, a Blackfyre supporter, sounds like a reference to the Gormenghast books by Mervyn Peake.


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For want of a finger, Jaime pointed his stump at Ser Osmund's beak of a nose. "I will ask once more. Where have you served?"

"In the Stepstones. Some in the Disputed Lands. There's always fighting there. I rode with the Gallant Men. We fought for Lys, and some for Tyrosh."

Jaime VIII, Storm

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gallant_Men

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This is an example of what I am talking about, the phrase "Gallant Men" has a long history as a phrase referring to soldiers and fighting men, for instance at the memorial to the USS Arizona. So many literary and historical references are seen as references to TV and other pop culture because people don't recognize the literary references in the pop culture they consume.

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This is an example of what I am talking about, the phrase "Gallant Men" has a long history as a phrase referring to soldiers and fighting men, for instance at the memorial to the USS Arizona. So many literary and historical references are seen as references to TV and other pop culture because people don't recognize the literary references in the pop culture they consume.

Granted. Thank goodness for web pages like this where I can post something idiotic and get edumacated by really really smart people like you. Thanks for all you do!.

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Ooh good idea to stick all the references together!

I also thought that the Red Wedding could be slightly similar to the historical St. Bartholomew Days' Massacre.

I read in an article that stated the red wedding was based on two historical events from Scottish history, the first being the black dinner in which the earl of Douglas and his brother were invited to dine with 10 year old James II, they were murdered by the kings men after the feast. The other was the Glencoe massacre, the Mcdonald clan stayed with the rival Campbell clan and laws of hospitality applied but the Campbells arose in the night and slaughtered the Mcdonalds.

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If we assume now that the things some people research are just attempts to show GRRM ripped off, well the Red Wedding would then be a "rip off" of the german classic Niebelungenlied, specifically the revenge of Kriemhild.


She was betrayed over money and her husband was taken away from her, so she invited her enemies and attempted to kill them during the feast. At the table, one of her enemy arseholes put a knife to her son and killed him, somehow she left the room and her men locked the room and burned all inside to death.


(Correct me if I am wrong with details, been long since I last read about it)


It also allures to Cersei of course, but Walder and Kriemhild are extremely similar in the aspect of the trait that they remember a wrong done to them and will make their enemies pay for it.



But this is not meant to show that an other story had the same scenario, but simply that there are other stories that may or may not have been inspirations for it.


Its anyway impossible to make an original story today that does not mirror another story by some or most elements.


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Granted. Thank goodness for web pages like this where I can post something idiotic and get edumacated by really really smart people like you. Thanks for all you do!.

I'm always happy to help the more intellectually disadvantaged. By the way, it's spelled "educated" though I understand the way you spelled it may be your dialect and I respect that, some of the foreign posters and those who have not been exposed to your culture may not understand that.

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I'm always happy to help the more intellectually disadvantaged. By the way, it's spelled "educated" though I understand the way you spelled it may be your dialect and I respect that, some of the foreign posters and those who have not been exposed to your culture may not understand that.

Edumacated was the funny way the NCOs (that's "non-commissioned officers" for you foreign posters) said it in the US Army when I was a dumb grunt serving in the 10th Mountain Division. Us dumb military guys were always making fun of our educated betters. Of course, I was enlisted being altogether too stupid to be an officer. Thanks again.

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