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References and Homages

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lol, this is just a joke because I do NOT believe in the Aerys + Joanna = Tyrion theory, but Joanna was a Welsh princess (I think a bastard daughter of King John) who was unfaithful to her husband, Prince Llewelyn. An amazing trilogy by Sharon Kay-Penman details the historical fiction concerning England and Wales King John-onward. The first is Here Be Dragons, if anyone's interested.

this thread is fantastic, by the way!

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Another possible reference is that Manderley is the name of the house in Rebecca. However I not sure if GRRM would be a fan of Daphne Du Maurier :)

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also, although there isn't really a connection, whenever I read a Sansa PoV and she is referring / thinking about Gregor Clegane (such as at the Tourney of the Hand), I am reminded of the main character in Kafka's 'Metamorphosis', who is Gregor Samsa

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I think the similarities between Dorne and medieval spain have already been noted. But I just read about something interesting: When the king of Aragon had only a daughter instead of a male heir, he married her to the count of Barcelona, naming him his heir. However, the bridegroom decided against crowning himself king, instead taking the title of prince, in order to avoid offending his royal neighbours who might have taken offense in someone becoming king by marriage instead of birth... ;)

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I wanted to make a new thread on this, but... I'll just give in and put it here. :) Spoilers from A Storm of Swords below!

Ever since I started reading ASoIaF, I've taken an interest in historical European kings. While I was reading about the 1st Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne (ca. 8th century), I think I have discovered the origin of Tyrion...

This is Charlemagne's page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne

If you scroll allll the way down and look at his family... I found it interesting that his firstborn son and heir was a hunchback! (named Pippin)

This is Pippin the Hunchback's page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippin_the_Hunchback

Pippin's life is almost the same as Tyrion's life (up to ASoS)! Of course, a few details are different but the resemblance is striking. Most striking of all is Pippin's ending. If you read the page, you'll see that Pippin was accused of high treason, for attempting to murder the king (his father)!! And just like Tyrion, Pippin was brought before his father to be judged. The penalty for treason is death, but instead Charlemagne sent his son to live at a monastary for the rest of his life..... and Lord Tywin was going to send Tyrion to the Wall for the rest of his life! (instead of execution) But of course, unlike Pippin, Tyrion took matters into his own hands at the end of ASoS :)

One more thing:

Like any ordinary king, Charlemagne had a number of bastards...

His 4th bastard had a very interesting name...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogo_of_Metz

Even more striking is Drogo's nickname :) see for yourself, it should be familiar if you remember Dany's... 3 children. :)

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A lot of people have talked about how the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series influenced GRRM to write the ASOIAF series... are their any interviews about this or anything? I'm a huge Tad Williams fan and would be interested in reading the. :P

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Could someone tell me what the robert jordan reference(s) in the books is/are?

I remember reading one but can't for the life of me remember what it was..

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There are many references and homages I want to add, but I don't have all the quotes on hand. But here's a good one I especially like. The name, Dorne, comes from a character, Ruth Dorne, in the Jim Thompson novel, Savage Night. Ruth has a limp and is very smart, but underestimated by everyone. I don't think anyone need to reach too far to realize what character she was an inspiration for.

Artanaro

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There are many references and homages I want to add, but I don't have all the quotes on hand. But here's a good one I especially like. The name, Dorne, comes from a character, Ruth Dorne, in the Jim Thompson novel, Savage Night. Ruth has a limp and is very smart, but underestimated by everyone. I don't think anyone need to reach too far to realize what character she was an inspiration for.

Artanaro

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That's pretty clever. So he had the idea of what Doran would be like long before he was ever introduced... Do we know this is an actual reference and not just coincidence, btw?

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I'm not so sure about the last couple of "homages" that people have pointed out. If you are right and Martin did mean to reference Jim Thompson and Eric Ambler, it is in a pretty oblique way. Strikes me these are more likely just coincidences.

To the person who asked about Robert Jordan references, there is also a House Jordayne of the Tor in ASOIAF. Jordan's publisher is Tor Books. I believe that the sigil of the house is a quill.

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To the person who asked about Robert Jordan references, there is also a House Jordayne of the Tor in ASOIAF. Jordan's publisher is Tor Books. I believe that the sigil of the house is a quill.

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I'm not so sure about the last couple of "homages" that people have pointed out. If you are right and Martin did mean to reference Jim Thompson and Eric Ambler, it is in a pretty oblique way. Strikes me these are more likely just coincidences.

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Perhaps you are correct Artanaro, although in that case they would be "inspirations" rather than homages, IMO. Most of the direct homages that Martin throws into ASOIAF are quite peripheral and have little actual bearing on the storyline.

But in any case, you have piqued my interest, and I shall try to track down the books you've mentioned. :)

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I'm thinking about the Littlefinger <-> Mr Peters parallel. Interesting. I have to say though, I think that Littlefinger is a good deal smarter than Mr Peters. I can't see him making the mistakes that Peters made.

(Eric Ambler is worth a read though. I was always amused at the way that one of the main characters in The Mask of Demitrios was casually bumped off in passing in one of his later books.)

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I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but what about Jaime Lannister and his more than passing resembelance to Luke Skywalker. Just think-

Both Blonde, Check!

Evil Daddy, Check!

Excel in Sword/Sabre play, Check!

Have kissed thier sister, Check!

Yeah I doubt that GRRM really took Luke lock Stock and Barrel from Lucas, but I thought it was worth mentioning :)

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Martin's own Haviland Tuf series of stories from the 70's and 80's could have conceivably inspired several of the names in ASoIaF, even if just for the simple reason that Martin liked the sound of the name. The below list is by no means conclusive or authoritative, just a few similarities (some more applicable than others) that I've noted:

Characters:

- Jefri Lion = not too much of a stretch into Joffrey/Lannister sigil

- Jaime Kreen

- Celise = Lady Selyse

- a hot pie vendor

- Rica Dawnstar = (meh, Darkstar-ish)

- Molly Tune aka "Ma Spider" = Varys aka "The Spider"

- Cregor Blaxon = Gregor

- Rikken

Places:

- planet Vale Areen=The Arryns, the Vale (I love this one personally)

- Broken Hand = Broken Arm

- planet Lyss=Lys

Creatures:

- lizard-lions

- krakens

- cats :)

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In ACoK Arya spots a banner she describes to Yoren as a “Spotted treecat, yellow and black, on a mud-brown field.†She spots someone wearing a doublet sporting a treecat again before the Red Wedding.

Rather than being a cat that likes to climb trees or a species of cat invented for Westeros, "treecat" may be a small nod to the intelligent, six-limbed treecats in the Honor Harrington sci-fi series created by David Weber.

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I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but what about Jaime Lannister and his more than passing resembelance to Luke Skywalker. Just think-

Both Blonde, Check!

Evil Daddy, Check!

Excel in Sword/Sabre play, Check!

Have kissed thier sister, Check!

Yeah I doubt that GRRM really took Luke lock Stock and Barrel from Lucas, but I thought it was worth mentioning :)

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There is also a nice homage to Tad Williams's MS&T series, but I can't recall what it is other than the fact that the lord has two sons, Elias and Josua.

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