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Studying Elizabethan England I think I might have stumbled upon one that haven't been spotted to do with Ireland.



The Battle of the Yellow Ford (1598): Such a big link to ASOIAF here!!!!


  • Yellow ford = v. similar to green fork (ruby ford), blue fork and red fork
  • On the wiki it says the battle took place near to the River Blackwater
  • Battle started with an ambush from a wood a la Whispering Wood
  • Also like Whispering Wood, the ambushing party won
  • Irish Alliance vs English Crown = Northern men and Rivermen allied under Robb's rule vs Westeros Crown (Lannister)
  • Both Yellow Ford and Whispering Wood marked an escalation in war

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Can House Wells from Dorne or House Wells from the North be reference to H.G Wells?

Only if there is some other connection besides a not-uncommon name. Any of them socialists? Futurists? I know Wells was into free love and the Dornish seem more sexually liberated than most of Westeros, but I don't think that's enough...what are their sigils?

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Only if there is some other connection besides a not-uncommon name. Any of them socialists? Futurists? I know Wells was into free love and the Dornish seem more sexually liberated than most of Westeros, but I don't think that's enough...what are their sigils?

Wells from Dorne : unknown

Wells from the North: According to semi-canon sources they blazon their arms with per fess: five black roundels on grey over green and white lozengy

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This is probably wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Martin, who is actually an expert on Scottish history, may have been influenced by my own family lineage in his choice of sigils covering the Baratheons and Tyrells: in a sense of at least subconscious correlation, anyway. I'll explain why. My surname is Robb, and we were a splinter group of the MacFarlane Clan. The Robb coat of arms consists of three deer. So we have the association of the name Robb, with the fact the Baratheons, who the Starks were affiliated with, have a stag as their sigil. Plus the MacFarlane coat of arms consists of four roses. The last earl of Robb came up with his own coat of arms by taking the MacFarlane coat and making the roses pentagonal. So the Robbs who could somehow trace their lineage back to him could adopt the pentagonal roses rather than the deer. The Starks, if only through Sansa, have become involved with the Tyrells, whose sigil is a golden rose.


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Y Mabinogi: Third Branch

Pryderi returns from the disastrous Irish wars as one of the only Seven Survivors. Manawydan is another Survivor, and his good comrade and friend. They perform their duty of burying the dead king of Britain's head in London (Bran the Blessed) to protect Britain from invasion. But in their long time away, the kingship of Britain has been usurped by Manawydan's nephew Caswallon.

I was struck by the head of a dead king being buried in a special place to protect the land from invasion, and his name being Bran. Bran Stark is a king, presumed dead, and buried - and many think the purpose of going underground is to protect Westeros from invasion.

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Hah, I missed this the first time. Definitely not a coincidence.

Brân the Blessed (Welsh: Bendigeidfran or Brân Fendigaidd, literally "Blessed Crow") is a giant and king of Britain in Welsh mythology. He appears in several of the Welsh Triads, but his most significant role is in the Second Branch of the Mabinogi, Branwen ferch Llŷr. He is a son of Llŷr and Penarddun, and the brother of Brânwen, Manawydan, Nisien and Efnysien. The name "Brân" in Welsh is usually translated as crow or raven.

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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but....

...The first Emperor of China was known as Qin Shi Huang aka Ying Zheng.

1. The Seven Kingdoms:

He conquered the seven warring states of China.

Then collected the weapons of the conquered states and had them cast into statues which looked kinda like a throne (if you looked at it from a certain angle)

2.Joffrey and Aegon the Conqueror:

Also, there were some rumors that he wasn't his (supposed) father's son. He became the King at 13 years of age when his father died prematurely.After a couple of assassination attempts and a failed coup, he conquered the remaining states of China and named himself Emperor.

3. Varys and (f)Aegon:

Lao Ai a supposed eunuch had a plot to replace the (now) King with one of his own son(s). He seized the Queen mother's seal and mobilized an army to start a coup and rebel.

Then he burned some books, killed some people and died trying to become immortal...

P.S- He started building the Great Wall of China (and a huge canal).

P.P.S- Also the Terracotta army guarded his crypt

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the book Jerusalem: The Biography - Simon Sibag Montefiory (MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS)

In this book there's a chapter about Simon Bar Kochb, was the Jewish leader of what is known as the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire.
There are a vew reasons why I think this Jewish leader is an inspiration for Stannis de Mannis.

Simon Bar Kochba: Believed that he was the bringer of light.

Simon Bar Kochba: His men must sometimes show there loyalty to Simon by cutting of some of there vingers ( Davos Seaworth?)

In the book Simon Bar kochba, was hiding in the caves and was surrounded by his enemies. He then dropped on his own sword. Stannis could overcome the same faith. He is now in a place wich could get surrounded by the Boltons.

Do you guys have simular events in history that got you thinking about ASoIaF???

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I was rereading the old pulp magazine "Conan the Cimmerian" stories and there are some obvious cues taken.

Just off the top of my head the terms "mummery" and "bravo" (meaning assassin, not as a cheer) are both common in Robert Howard's Conan and Asoiaf and pretty much nowhere else.

Robert is described a lot like Conan too but that could just be coincidence.

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I was rereading the old pulp magazine "Conan the Cimmerian" stories and there are some obvious cues taken.

Just off the top of my head the terms "mummery" and "bravo" (meaning assassin, not as a cheer) are both common in Robert Howard's Conan and Asoiaf and pretty much nowhere else.

Robert is described a lot like Conan too but that could just be coincidence.

I recall reading that The George enjoyed Conan as a boy. The term bravo is intended to call to mind the swordsmen of medieval Italy.

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I recall reading that The George enjoyed Conan as a boy. The term bravo is intended to call to mind the swordsmen of medieval Italy.

Yes but in the sense that the Italians were considered underhanded and shady by other Europeans of the time. I think there is an etymological bastard child in the word "brave" i.e. a native American warrior and all the stereotypes that come with that (savage, sneaky, etc).

There is a definite connotation of an assassin.

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Yes but in the sense that the Italians were considered underhanded and shady by other Europeans of the time. I think there is an etymological bastard child in the word "brave" i.e. a native American warrior and all the stereotypes that come with that (savage, sneaky, etc).

There is a definite connotation of an assassin.

Absolutely. That's the connotation. Consider Arya's two bravos.

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Sevenoaks, a town in England Kent, and Sevenstreams. Both are associated with local rebellions and dissatisfaction from the ruling dynasty as in the case of the BWB and the real word rebels that were lead by Jack Cade.



Thing is that no one really knew who Jack Cade was, and was possibly a fake identity, and he also may have taken the name John Mortimer. It kind mirrors Beric's story, with some not knowing if he is truly alive or when the BWB members start mocking that Frey when each claim each other to be Beric. What convinces me that there is a parallel though is that Jack Cade's rebellion started in a very controlled manner. He actually marched on London with the intent of doing good and ridding the Kingdom of what were considered corrupt individuals in power while improving the lives of the commoners. Thing is that when he entered London he lost control of his men and they started looting, and his men were quickly expelled when the citizens turned against them. In the books we see the deterioration of the BWB from their more noble actions to becoming just another outlaw band. It makes a better comparison than Robin Hood in my opinion.


Edited by Minstral

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From my close reading essays on the prologue from AGoT :



MARTIN and NOMENCLATURE



WILL and GARED in the “PROLOGUE” from A GAME of THRONES



Will and Gared may be dispensable, “generic” rangers on a fatal mission whose lives are forfeit because of their inexperienced commander Ser Waymar Royce, but Martin names them with purpose as a way to honor and thank two authors who inspire his prose fiction in A Song of Ice and Fire Series. The appearance of the names Will and Gared in the first “Prologue” of a voluminous series of novels speaks to the degree of gratitude Martin owes his sources.



First, Will is short for “William”, or for “William Shakespeare”, the celebrated English writer whose works still have universal appeal hundreds of years after his death. It is no secret that Martin borrows from “the bard”, and among Shakespeare’s many poetic plays that Martin alludes to in conflicts, plot elements, and language, The Tragedy of Julius Caesar ranks high as the source material Martin prefers, putting his own “spin” on ideas and themes throughout his fantasy novels.



To convey Will’s association with Shakespeare, Martin includes details pertaining to Will’s crime of poaching a deer that parallels similar events Shakespeare biographers debate happened to young Will Shakespeare before his arrival in London.



Martin says of Will’s crime:



“Will had been a hunter before he joined the Night’s Watch. Well, a poacher in truth. Mallister freeriders had caught him red-handed in the Mallisters’ own woods, skinning one of the Mallisters’ own bucks, and it had been a choice of putting on the black or losing a hand” (AGoT).



Likewise, William Shakespeare trespasses on Sir Thomas Lucy’s property to kill a deer. In the article “In Search of Shakespeare: The Poaching Myth 1598”, a PBS.org author writes:



“Though the tale is widely discredited today, three seventeenth-century accounts claim that Shakespeare was once beaten and imprisoned for poaching [a deer]. The alleged crime took place on land belonging to Sir Thomas Lucy - one of Walsingham's and Elizabeth's chief enforcers”. [http://www.pbs.org/shakespeare/events/event83.html]].



Although Will and Will share like crimes, their punishments are quite different. Ranger Will chooses an option that will take him a lifetime to repay, but he prefers becoming a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch over losing his hand, which is an early allusion to the stigma associated with disfigurement in Martin’s world of ice and fire.



Second, the name “Gared” has an unusual spelling, one not Americanized with a “J”. However, Martin aspires to create memorable characters, and he alters spellings of familiar names to give them a medieval flare. Analyzing the spelling of “Gared” requires some mental creativity: when readers divide “Gared” into two syllables, GAR / ED, and transpose them, one with the other, the “revised” appellation is EDGAR, the first name of American author and poet Edgar Allan Poe.



Of course, the obvious inspiration Martin takes from Poe is Lord Commander Mormont’s talking raven, a character that owes a debt of gratitude to Poe’s poem “The Raven”. The title bird flies in a window and perches on a bust of Athena, and he punctuates any question the narrator poses by saying hauntingly “Nevermore!” The narrator asks the raven if he will ever see his dead lover Lenore: quothe the raven, “Nevermore!”



Furthermore, Poe’s favorite thematic inclusion in several of his short stories is the death of a beautiful woman. In Martin’s I & F Series, the death of Lyanna Stark haunts Ned and figures in many other character arcs throughout the novels.

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The map is not the land, my father often said. (A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV)

Only, sometimes it is. ;)

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ShadowCat Rivers, I've just seen that the link I posted is also included in your link. I like these plays on perception of reality. Michael Ende used an idea similar to Carroll for a little episode in "Momo". Cat of the Canals reminded me a bit of Momo, but thinking about it she's closer to Sansa in character, only as a street urchin. I think that's interesting comparison, since Momo is often seen as a poster child against pinkification.

Here is the bit that might have been inspired by Lewis Carrroll.


"It is common knowledge that the cruel tyrant Marxentius Communis, nicknamed "the Red", resolved to mould the world to fit his own ideas. Try as he might... he found that people refused to change their ways and remained the same as they always had been.

Towards the end of his life, Marxentius Communis went mad. The ancient world had no psychiatrists capable of curing such mental disorders,…so the tyrant continued to rave unchecked. He eventually took to his head to leave the existing world to its own devices and create a brand-new world of his own.

He therefore decreed the construction of a globe exactly the same size as the old one, complete with perfect replicas of everything in it - every building and tree... The entire population of the earth was compelled, on pain of death, to assist in this vast project.

The sphere used up vast quantities of building materials... and these could only be taken from earth itself. So the earth got smaller and smaller while the sphere got bigger and bigger.. By the time the new world was finished, very last little scrap of the old world had been carted away.

What was more, the whole of mankind had naturally been obliged to move to the new world because the old one was all used up.

When it dawned on Marxentius Communis that, despite all his efforts, everything was just as it had been, he buried his head in his toga and tottered off. Where to, no one knows."

"In other words, you must picture everything upside down."

"But what became of Marxentius Communis's world?"

"Why, you're standing on it right now… Our world, ladies, is his!"

<snip>

Second, the name “Gared” has an unusual spelling, one not Americanized with a “J”. However, Martin aspires to create memorable characters, and he alters spellings of familiar names to give them a medieval flare. Analyzing the spelling of “Gared” requires some mental creativity: when readers divide “Gared” into two syllables, GAR / ED, and transpose them, one with the other, the “revised” appellation is EDGAR, the first name of American author and poet Edgar Allan Poe.

Of course, the obvious inspiration Martin takes from Poe is Lord Commander Mormont’s talking raven, a character that owes a debt of gratitude to Poe’s poem “The Raven”. The title bird flies in a window and perches on a bust of Athena, and he punctuates any question the narrator poses by saying hauntingly “Nevermore!” The narrator asks the raven if he will ever see his dead lover Lenore: quothe the raven, “Nevermore!”

Furthermore, Poe’s favorite thematic inclusion in several of his short stories is the death of a beautiful woman. In Martin’s I & F Series, the death of Lyanna Stark haunts Ned and figures in many other character arcs throughout the novels.

Interesting about Gared, is it such an unusual name in english? In any case, I think there is no doubt that Poe has influenced Martin. Something I posted with regard to Septa Lemore (inspired by a poster's type-o "Septa Lenore")

Some posters have been referring to "The Living and the Dead" (or "Vertigo") to conclude that Septa Lemore has come back from the grave of Ashara, but I think it refers to Young Griff.

Tyrion to Young Griff in Dance.

"...I must admit, you have noble features for a dead boy.”

The Griffin Reborn in Dance.

“Lord Connington,” he said, “I like your castle.”
“Your father’s lands are beautiful,” he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy’s

Rhaegar reborn is a mere shadow of Jon Con´s lost love.

There´s a well established theme in literature, called "Das Leonoren Motiv" in german, describing the longing for a dead love and bringing it back to life in some form. I think Edgar Allan Poe used it in "The Raven" and probably "Eleonora".

Regarding Mormont's Raven, I'd like to think that some of the inspiration for it came from Maurice Sendak's beautiful illustration of the nursery rhyme "Hector Protector".

Edited by Lykos

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Lycos, I think that Martin plays with reality / perception of it quite a lot, making it a theme of the series. The POV structure helps too as does the concept of the "unreliable narrator" - what else do they give us but their perception of what happens around them?


Also, Syrio's "look with your eyes" etc advice because "the heart lies and the head plays tricks with us" exemplifies the use of descriptors versus direct experience.


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