Jump to content
Ran

References and Homages

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I don't know about you guys, but this fictional decisive-Hamlet character reminds me of Jaime Lannister:

"Hey King Aerys ... you want me to kill my father? big mistake...."

  • Kingslaying King Claudias
  • Throwing someone off a tower
  • The cockiness
  • Wielding a sword with his left hand, while his right hand is stiff
  • The golden color embroidery on the outfit
  • The crimson color scarf on the horse
  • Successful wildfire plot for the castle's explosion in the end??
  • For all the A+J=J&C believers, Arnie made a "big mistake" by killing his actual father lol

The biggest coincidence in this film "Last Action Hero" and how Arnie = decisive Hamlet, Prince of Denmark ~ Jaime Lannister ... is that the actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (HBO GoT's Jaime) is also Danish! 

Also Charles Dance, who plays Jaime's father Tywin Lannister, is also in this 1993 film! "If God was a villain, he would be me"

Probably just big coincidences when GRRM was doing the initial HBO casting huh? Regardless, Nikolaj & Charles were great picks.

Who knows, maybe Jaime Lannister will be ASOIAF's Last Action Hero.....

 

Edited by The Map Guy
TOTALLY FORGOT Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is Danish! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ran Is House Errol a homage to Errol Flynn? Seems like GRRM is of an age that he would have watched Flynn's swashbuckling movies as a kid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ser Leftwich said:

@Ran Is House Errol a homage to Errol Flynn? Seems like GRRM is of an age that he would have watched Flynn's swashbuckling movies as a kid.

I've never figured out how to connect the haystack in the Errol arms to Errol Flynn, so presently I think not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Ran said:

I've never figured out how to connect the haystack in the Errol arms to Errol Flynn, so presently I think not.

He was reportedly a bit of a womanizer, so maybe "roll in the hay?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

He was reportedly a bit of a womanizer, so maybe "roll in the hay?"

Seems a bit too out there, unless there were some famous quote connecting Errol to hay in that sense. I can't think of a movie where he does one of those stunts where he leaps into a bale of hay -- unless he does it in Robin Hood at some point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

This may be the influence of the name "Brandon" in the book:

The Crow (1994) starring Brandon Lee, who infamously died on set.

Brandon Lee plays Eric Draven, who was killed after he was thrown out of a tower, after a bunch bad guys raped and murdered his girlfriend on the night before his wedding.

A magical crow visits his grave a year later and Brandon is resurrected. He digs out of his grave and begins a rampage on those responsible for his and his girlfriend's murder ... sound's like Lady Stoneheart's plot.

The Crow = Eric Draven = Brandon Lee ...  Bruce Lee's son, the "Lee" surname in Hollywood has been generally associated with the blood of the dragon during Bruce Lee era

Bloo-Draven = Brynden Rivers ... a Targaryen bastard with the blood of the dragons

Also from the movie:

  • Eric Draven's villain-rival in the movie, Top Dollar, is sleeping with his own half-sister
  • He can also warg into his crow and spy from above
  • He says "Her name was Shelly! You cut her! You raped her!" when confronting an enemy during his quest for vengeance
  • He also says "Tell them Eric Draven sends his regards" while passing a message to the bad guys
  • He also says "Mother is the name of God on the lips and hearts of all children" = the Mother is a god with the Faith of the Seven

 

Edited by The Map Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm becoming more and more convinced that George read a lot of Ursala K. Leguin.

From Rocannon's World (page 18 in the 1966 version)

"Once you had it, it is said." 

"Much is said, up there where the sun blinks."

"And words are borne off by the winds, where there are winds to blow."

Sounds very similar to "words are wind".

This conversation is taking place in a cave. I wonder if George plays with this idea as well. This makes me want to reassess conversations which take place in caves and crypts (no wind) in ASoIaF. Is it possible that only truths are told underground? I'm going to look into this some more.

@The Fattest Leech because I think you will find this interesting. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'm becoming more and more convinced that George read a lot of Ursala K. Leguin.

From Rocannon's World (page 18 in the 1966 version)

"Once you had it, it is said." 

"Much is said, up there where the sun blinks."

"And words are borne off by the winds, where there are winds to blow."

Sounds very similar to "words are wind".

This conversation is taking place in a cave. I wonder if George plays with this idea as well. This makes me want to reassess conversations which take place in caves and crypts (no wind) in ASoIaF. Is it possible that only truths are told underground? I'm going to look into this some more.

@The Fattest Leech because I think you will find this interesting. 

 

 

I have a LeGuin quote I have been meaning to share with you. It’s at home in a book or I’d just paste it now. 

I’ll send a bird later ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2019 at 2:52 PM, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'm becoming more and more convinced that George read a lot of Ursala K. Leguin.

From Rocannon's World (page 18 in the 1966 version)

"Once you had it, it is said." 

"Much is said, up there where the sun blinks."

"And words are borne off by the winds, where there are winds to blow."

Sounds very similar to "words are wind".

This conversation is taking place in a cave. I wonder if George plays with this idea as well. This makes me want to reassess conversations which take place in caves and crypts (no wind) in ASoIaF. Is it possible that only truths are told underground? I'm going to look into this some more.

@The Fattest Leech because I think you will find this interesting. 

 

 

The last few days have been hairy and busy and busy. I thought I had that quote bookmarked, but I don't... but I have a general idea where it is  and I will find it this evening. Sorry to keep you hanging :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a recent interview with Anderson Cooper, GRRM has said the books and the TV show shared "[...] major beats [...] but there is no way to get into all the details, all the minor characters, all the secondary characters." 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjDentEr9c4

 

I know I am a minority for saying this and I don't know if this belongs in "References & Homages" or not, but I truly believe the Children of the Forest and Bloodraven are bad guys in ASOIAF.

 

Children of the Forest = "Children of the Corn" ... a 1984 Hollywood film, with the original short-story written by Stephen King in the 1970s.

 

The predecessor to the film "Children of the Corn" was the 1983 short-film "Disciple of the Crow." The 'Crow' = Brynden 'Bloodraven' Rivers

 

The short-story, the short-film, and the Hollywood film have plots and character roles that sometimes DIFFER from each other. But one theme remains the same ... evil murderous cult children.

 

I am not saying GRRM is plagiarizing Stephen King, but a lot of elements are taken from the films and the written story.

 

Children of the Corn (1984)

  • The Children of the Corn is an evil cult of children that has killed all the adults of a town, mostly as blood sacrifices.
  • The Children of the Corn usually made their blood sacrifices in a cornfield near a dead white tree ... a weirwood tree?  
  • The Children of the Corn killed the adults by first poisoning their food. It was displayed in one scene in a diner, where a teenage employee rat-cook, poured poison in the pot of coffee, and all the guests of the diner drank it ... the Children of the Forest in ASOIAF oddly cook hefty meals for Bran, Meera, Jojen & Hodor ... ready for an unsuspecting twist for TWOW?
  • The Children of the Corn are portrayed similarly to Amish children, who are one step behind modern technology ... which is what the Children of the Forest are, one step behind in the modern tech of the time.
  • One of the favorite weapons of the Children of the Corn is the sickle ... in Bran's vision while he was in the cave with the Children of the Forest, he saw a man executed by a bronze sickle as a blood sacrifice.
  • In the film, one little girl has minor visions of the future ... is this GRRM's greenseeing?
  • The Children of the Corn worships a deity called "He Who Walks behind the Rows" ... is this GRRM's "the thing that comes in the night"? Is this the Others?
  • There is a human body crucified in a corn field, and his skeleton is essentially used as a scare-crow
  • The crucified skeleton (called the "blue man") was a police chief that died fighting the Children of the Corn & He Who Walks Behind the Rows
  • Bloodraven was the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he disappeared. He re-appears in ADWD as the Three Eyed Crow, a half-skeleton-man stuck upright on a tree
  • The adult male & female protagonists of the film was caught in the town's mess by accident. They are fleeing & fighting the Children of the Corn throughout the movie
  • In the finale, the man sought the Children of the Corn in their cornfields, and makes a pact with them. Some of Children of the Corn abandoned their worship of "He Who Walks Behind the Rows", and they band together to fight it.
  • The evil cult leader of the Children of the Corn was killed in an earlier betrayal. He is then resurrected by "He Who Walks Behind the Rows" as a zombie child out for revenge on his rival. He kills his rival, but disappears from the rest of story for some reason (a film plot hole).
  • The man and a little boy sidekick defeated "He Who Walks Behind the Rows" in a literal field of fire ... they burnt down the cornfield. They are the last heroes of this story.

 

Disciples of the Crow (1983)

  • The evil cult leader has a small wine-stain birthmark on his lower right cheek ... Bloo-Draven?

 

GRRM may borrow more film plot points for TWOW ... but who knows.   

I don't know what the background story & motive GRRM has written for the Others, Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest ... but I am 99% sure they are set up to be the bad guys in TWOW. The CotF may have been good guys in the distant past, but in ASOIAF they may be wights resurrected by the Others ... just my personal theory. I believe in ADWD, all three Bran chapters is written from the perspective of an innocent child being lured into a trap. 

This "Children of the Corn" reference/homage may be a reason why TWOW is delayed ... because GRRM's plans for Bloodraven and CotF will differ greatly than D&D.

So GRRM is letting D&D finish their story before GRRM publish his. I guess GRRM doesn't want to be stealing each other's thunder.  

 

Children of the Corn -1984 Full Movie for free (92 mins)

 

 

Disciple of the Crow - 1983 Full Short Film for free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbKgvnn-tNg(Part I - 9 mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcL0b23Q6L4 (Part II - 9 mins)

 

Corn corn corn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@The Fattest Leech and I just happened to watch the same movie tonight:

"Legend" directed by Riddley Scott, with young Tom Cruise and Tim Curry.

Darkness (the lord of darkness) wishes to ban the light and has his goblins sent to kill the last two unicorns. As one is shot, winds of winter pick up and winter takes over the forest, including a lake freezing over.

There's a princess, and Darkness calls her "Lady", with many beauty and the beast visual references once she's his prisoner, such as moving statues spying on her, a "dancer" garbed in black who dances with her, and Darkness telling her he only requires her to sit and talk with him at a lavish dinner.

In a trreasure chest she finds jewelry, like a lavish necklace. Darkness asks her how she likes his "gift(s)".

When he's about to sacrifice the last unicorn Darkness says something along the lines of "let xxx be sanctified with fire... and blood".

Jack, the boy who loves the princess and wants to banish winter, save both princess and unicorns, ends up several times confronted by cannibalists, hangs around with fairies with one who has cat like eyes, and they are the height of children. And he uses objects to bring the light of the sun into darkness (sword of the morning?)

Edited by sweetsunray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ygritte may be a homage to Brigitte Nielsen, who plays Red Sonja in the 1985 film.

Ygritte is a red haired woman warrior.

Red Sonja is a red haired woman warrior.

With the exception of Ygritte's height and crooked teeth, she is almost everything like Red Sonja physically.

Also from the film:

  • Brigitte's love interest is played by Arnold Schwarzenegger
  • After the two first kissed, all Brigitte kept thinking about were her vows
  • They shared a waterfall cavern scene together (sorry, not a 'Jon Snow oh Oh OH' moment)
  • The two have climbed a wall together (Jon & Ygritte) to assault the main evil villain's castle
  • The villain's castle's outer walls are made of many carved faces (House of Black & White)
  • Inside this castle, the villain has a very large pet spider (as big as a hound!)
  • Elsewhere, there is also a gigantic statue of a samurai warrior, where people enter & exit under the statue's legs (Titan of Braavos)
  • There is a group of fierce women warriors in the film (spear wives)
  • There is a little boy prince that occasionally rides the back of a larger servant man (Bran & Hodor)
  • Arnold and the large servant man have rescued the little prince by holding a door that is being pushed downwards from the ceiling
  • The arrogant little boy prince has a catch-phrase where he calls his servant a "clumsy oaf" (Samwell Tarly has called himself a "clumsy oaf" once)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

Snowflakes swirled from a dark sky and ashes rose to meet them, the grey and the white whirling around each other as flaming arrows arced above a wooden wall and dead things shambled silent through the cold, beneath a great grey cliff where fires burned inside a hundred caves. Then the wind rose and the white mist came sweeping in, impossibly cold, and one by one the fires went out. Afterward only the skulls remained.

 

The "wooden wall" in Mel's vision is probably a nod to a Delphi Oracle in Herodotus, which refers to the ships as a wooden wall that would save Athens from Xerxes. So it means Cotter Pyke‘s ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, zionius said:

The "wooden wall" in Mel's vision is probably a nod to a Delphi Oracle in Herodotus, which refers to the ships as a wooden wall that would save Athens from Xerxes. So it means Cotter Pyke‘s ships.

Intentional or not, I like it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

House Morrigen of Crow's Nest is a reference to Queen of Phantoms Morrigan, who is also a Battle Crow Badb, from Irish mythology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan

So the shadowbinder Quaithe, who is sort of like a queen of phantoms, could be also the Three-Eyed Crow. And because Morrigan is also sometimes associated with Morgana le Fay, who was Merlin's lover, Quaithe could be Shiera Seastar, ex-lover of ASOIAF's "Merlin" - Bloodraven (Coldhands said to Bran and Co, that he is taking them to the wizard, and brought them to Brynden Rivers).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, zionius said:

The "wooden wall" in Mel's vision is probably a nod to a Delphi Oracle in Herodotus, which refers to the ships as a wooden wall that would save Athens from Xerxes. So it means Cotter Pyke‘s ships.

A reader reminds me GRRM used the metaphor as well:

Quote

The city has no walls. But when she said as much to Denyo, he laughed at her. “Our walls are made of wood and painted purple,” he told her. “Our galleys are our walls. We need no other.” AFFC Arya I

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×