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References and Homages


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There's one or two homages in this series that I've always wondered about.

Lord Horton Redfort of the Vale and later of the Lords Declarant had four sons

Two that stick out in my mind are Mychel Redfort and Creighton Redfort

Could this be loose reference to the late Michael Crichton? Sci Fi's Martin's bread and butter. I could see him being a big fan of Crichton's. (Does Redfort have anything to do with Michael Cricton's stories? I haven't got around to reading much of his works, other than the first 50 pages of Jurassic Park)

Also, when I read Winds of War by Hermann Wouk, there was a character Pug knew from the military named Red Tully. I wonder if this could be the inspiration for House Tully, for whom red hair is a common trait.

In general, Winds of War and War and Remembrance have ASoIaF elements to them, even if it's about World War II. Multiple POV's who become scattered due to WWII. Pug always reminded me of Ned as honorable and straight edge who's sent to become the naval observer at the US embassy in Nazi Germany and becomes something of a confident and envoy of FDR. The war effectively screws up Pug's perfect life (wife's messing around on him, daughter's sleeping with her boss in an age where pre-marital sex is not tolerated, ect.)

Its possible winds of war had an influence on ASoIaF, but only because given what I've read, Martin's clearly an avid reader. You could probably throw a rock in a library and hit a book that's influence ASoIaF and his other works (course you'd also get in serious trouble with the library and possibly the law, but never mind that)

. I think Grrm absolutely would be influenced by wouk. Good call. Winds of war and war and remeberenace deal with family torn apart by epic war. And as a tv writer, it was a huge miniseries in the early 1980s.
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Also is there any chance a list of these easter eggs could be added to the Citadel or one of the FAQs? Espcially for those items that GRRM has confirmed per so spake, or that appear to be confirmed in the judgment of the mods. And I was thinking more the minor more factual ones rather than the larger scale/homage ones. So Robert Jordan, Monty Python, Three Stooges, Grateful Dead, Phil Simms and other references, but not things like the whole series is like the War of the Roses.

This thread is a bit unwieldy at 37 plus pages, with a lot of overlapping ideas so the list would be very helpful.

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How did I miss this thread? Recently (noobie syndrome) I posted in the World Of sub thread how jazzed I was when watching an old series on british monarchy. I wont rehash all of the post. The gist was a rather awful oder to tolerate for those in attendance to William the Conqueror's funeral sounding rather familiar to the funeral of Tywin's. Any thoughts?

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Hi everybody. I'm new on this forum and a new GoT fan. I wanna know more about this whole universe. Does anyone know about GRRM historical influence. Did he read any book wrtitten by a historian ? Did any historian ever wrote anything about GRRM's works ? Thanks a lot !

Edited by Goliards
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Wow. It's been a while since I was here. Anyway, for another biblical reference (which might have been brought up before), Jacob was born clutching the heel of Esau, who he ended up betraying for his birthright. Jaime was born holding the heel of Cersei. Foreshadowing of Jaime betraying Cersei (arguably already happened) and receiving the right to Casterly Rock?

And Cersei has more than one valonquar (little brother)

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I kinda think Storm's End might be a shout-out to 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' with the King of Swamp Castle and his story.

"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England."

Maybe it's just wishful thinking though...

Edited by Mace134
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AFFC p. 298, The Queenmaker

"Beneath the burning sun of Dorne, wealth was measured as much in water as in gold..."

Another Dune reference, I think. Also first time I noted the similarity of the names Dune and Dorne.

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Hi, All,

This is my first post, but I've really enjoyed reading through this thread-entire, with its various references to literature, poetry, history, sci-fi, comics and all... Mostly I appreciate now this thread inflects my thinking of Martin as a reader and crafter of cultural and mythopoetic narratives. And I like seeing some of my thoughts echoed by others---

For example, I've long thought Martin's writing showed influence of ( if not homage to) Dune. The Starks remind me of the Atredeis, the Faceless Men of the face dancers, "wheels within wheels (within wheels)", Alia and the gom jabar, the litany against fear, and mostly significantly, something like moral relativism and a cynical and instrumental understanding of fanaticism and religion.

Also: Britomart and Brienne!, Brotherhood without Banners and Robin Hood, Tower of Joy...et al.

Something I didn't see though, despite such an impressive nod to other fantasy series and writers was any mention of Guy Gavriel Kay. I'm specifically thinking about the way Kay absorbed cultural or national identity into writing a specific fantasy world: ie. Spain and the story of El Cid for The Lions of al'Rassan, or the French Troubadours for A Song for Arbonne, and lastly, A fantastical pre-renaissance Italy for Tigana.

I only started thinking about this because I was thinking about other analogues for Patchface (other than Shakespeare which is totes the archetype. Long Live the Shakespearean fool!) ---and just how creepy he is---and how we might suspect something more from him, and it made me think of Rhun, King Brandin's fool from Tigana.

Anyway, what a fun read. Thanks!

Edited by Thel
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I did not see this listed yet. I get a little smile every time I read,"Brienne, Maid of Tarth".

Although the book is titled,Thuvia, Maid of Mars,she is often referred to in the story as,"Thuvia, Maid of Ptarth". Obviously she is a Cartesian heroine and has nothing much in common with Brienne. Except the huge pet lion...

Since the blasted movie came out, (John Carter) I dug out my Edgar Rice Burroughs collection. I know I thought I spotted and oblique Tarzan reference in one of GRRM's books once. I'll have to keep an eye out while I reread Burroughs.

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I ran across this from several years ago and the Margaery/Anne Boleyn thing suck out very strongly in my mind as well when I was reading about Cersei's plans to bring her down. Cersei's complaint of Tyrells everywhere (in multiple positions of power) is very reminiscent of the Boleyns being instilled throughout the court once Anne married Henry. Margaery's welcomed as a courtly, joyous breath of fresh air by both the common people and the court (very much like Anne Boleyn) while the king's former consort is put aside in disgrace. Margaery's accused of sleeping with multiple men, including a singer (Marillion/Smeaton) and the Queen considers accusing her of incest as well (as Anne was with George, who, interestingly enough has been portrayed as bisexual/gay).

At any rate, Natalie Dormer should have absolutely zero difficulty playing Margaery after her run as Anne Boleyn the Tudors!

I agree that Margaery is very like Ann Boleyn. Both were politically cunning, esp. when compared to the first queen (Cersei/Katherine of Aragon) and in AFFC Cersei says something about slicing through her "little neck" and having her "little head roll", while Ann Boleyn laughed when the guards said she was to be executed: something to the effect of "It will be fine, as I have such a thin little neck".

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am not talking about Martin being plagiatour, because I truely believe this masterpiece is one of a kind. But, even he said he has been influenced by rather many writers and hystorical events. So, I had a list of those characters who could have been inspired by some hystorical or imaginary character...

1. Robert Baratheon - his fatness, his horing and disloyalty to his wife, incompetence and impatience, it all reminds me of HENRY VIII

2. Cersei Lannister - woman who is afraid that more beautiful one is going to substitute her, well we all know that fairy tale, and that character, EVIL QUEEN from SNOW WHITE AN SEVEN DWARVES.

3. Sansa Stark - initally I think she is like fairytale princess, but Martin evolved her character quite a bit. So, ANY PRINCESS FROM FAIRYTALES

4. Targaryen demise - actually, it`s like the end of Romanov dinasty in Russia in 1918.

5. Daenerys`s and Aegon`s survival - it`s all like Anastasia Romanov, and Anna Anderson`s claim to be her

6. FAith and High Septon at the beginning - It`s all like Pope and Catholic Churc in time when Martin Luther began preaching Reformation

7. Margaery`s trial - very similar to those of Anne Boleyn`s and Catherine Howard`s for their infidelity to King Henry VIII

8. Arya Stark - her behaviour was the most similar to JOAN OF ARC

9. North`s uprising - it`s all like american revolution and their desire to free from Britsh Empire (of course it was more successful than North`s battle foor independence)

10. Sarella - throughout history, we have many examples of how women impersonated men so they could be same as their male friends

11. Rhaegar`s love towards Lyanna - It`s all like myth of Troy, when Paris and Helen fell in love and started a war for a woman

That`s for now, I will check for some more, but if you have anything, please, reply...

Edited by Mladen
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