References and Homages

[James Arryn]

I, Claudius makes a comparison between the Julio-Claudians and both the Targaryans and the Fossoways.

Tiberius, when talking with Drusus, cites that all J-CS are like apples, destined to born either 'sweet' or 'sour'...

[a white raven]

Don't have the page number, just did a quick search in my ebooks (very convienent for searching for phrases). It's in SoS, a Samwell chapter that starts with Gilly stating "He sucks harder than mine.". The phrase is:

"Sam, you're a sweet fool."

Jon says the same thing to Sam in ACOK after finding Sam has been in the NW library all night

“Is it morning? Down here there’s no way to know.” “Sam, you’re a sweet fool,” Jon said.

Martin, George R.R. (2003-01-01). A Clash of Kings: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Two (p. 41). Random House, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

[chrisdaw]

The Russian Garland.

http://www.worldoftales.com/Russian_Garland.html

Featuring the "Story of Lyubim Tsarevich and the Winged Wolf", wherein our hero Lyubim is treacherously betrayed and murdered by his brothers only to be resurrected by the winged wolf. Other tales include a 3 headed dragon and mountain of gold.

[Full-Faced Braavosi]

This may have been mentioned... but:

Lightbringer, the sword of Azor Ahai, translates to Phosphorous in Greek, the name of the "Morning Star" which is Venus seen just prior to Dawn.

(And in Latin... it translates to Lucifer)

[Brave Sir Robin]

Am I the only one who sees similarities (beyond the name) between the Battle of the Blackwater and the Conan the Barbarian story, Beyond the Black River?

[nenya~]

I wouldn't call it a reach. I've seen quite a few instances where scenes, themes, and other such details directly parallel stuff from Tolkien. I seem to notice a lot more similarities to stories from The Silmarillion and The Unfinished Tales than I do from LOTR. Off the top of my head I recall an almost exact depiction of Beren Camlost (one-hand) early on in ASOIAF, even the verbiage was almost identical down to the fighter wielding blade better with left hand than ever had with their right, and having a new nickname referencing their lost appendage.

Another Tolkien reference could be Bran the Broken and Brandir the Lame. Both are cripple, but of course, I don't think Bran's story will end up like Brandir's (or at least I hope not). Although, there is a dragon involved in Brandir's story so there's that.

[Peter George Stewart]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think Lann the Clever is a GRRM homage to s-f/fantasy author Jack Vance's most famous character, Cugel the Clever. GRRM is a known Vance fan. Swindling a family out of their hereditary castle is just the sort of thing Cugel might have done.

[chrisdaw]

Queen Elizabeth I of England, the virgin queen, I believe inspired Lysa and Robery Dudley inspired LF. It is rumoured that Robert Dudley and the queen were lovers.

There's a few parallels.

Elizabeth is believed to have dubbed Robert Dudley her "Sweet Robin". Lysa's virginity, or lack thereof was a matter of consideration to interested parties and a secret well hidden, of course the question of if Elizabeth really was a virgin remains a mystery and topic of interest. Elizabeth's fawning over Dudley bares similarities to Lysa's of LF. There were rumours Elizabeth had Dudley's child in secret. Dudley has been often represented as a master courtier and the master schemer of Elizabeth's court. Dudley's first wife died after she fell down a staircase, but it was widely rumoured he pushed her (or more believably had it arranged), much like the moon door.

Elizabeth famously said "Tell the queen of Scots that I am older than she is; and when people arrive at my age, they take all they can get with both hands, and only give with their little finger."

Sansa may yet become queen, a virgin queen very possibly, giving the Sweet Robin reference another angle.

[SimonSez]

I've been listening to Jefferson Airplane and heard in the song Have You Seen The Saucers there's a lyric that goes

"Star children on the black road to salvation;

You've got to care for the needs of your planet;

Children of the forest and child of the Woodstock nation;

Catch the dawn that once was there;

First born atomic generation;

Open the door,

Don't you know that's what it's for?"

Others discussing this topic discovered the Dark Star homage, this is less likely to be a true homage, but you never know. . . . . .

[Iron Banker]

I thought the line by Aly Mormont in ADWD, "The Sacrifice": "Lady Asha is not for burning" was a reference to Margaret Thatcher's famous line: "The lady's not for turning."

Edited January 29, 2013 by Iron Banker

[Shierashiera]

Perhaps the Dothraki could be a subtle reference to the Jivaro tribe?

I know that the Dothraki are a lot like nomadic tribes from Asia, mostly the Mongols, but perhaps there are similarities to the Jivaro, a group of people that live in northern Peru and Ecuador. The Dothraki live in Essos, a continent where two important civilisations originated, the Empire of Ghis and Valyria. In the books, Ghis is regarded as one of the oldest civilisations, whereas people consider Valyrian steel to be rare and finest. Yet, the Dothraki were not affected by the civilisations of their continent and had a completely different lifestyle. They were warriors, moved from place to place and attacked cities. The Jivaros, just like the Dothraki, spoke one language but there was no real unity between them. They formed independent groups and were often fighting each other. In the same continent where the civilisations of the Incas and Mayas prospered, there was a group of people, dedicated to war and fighting and were not affected by the Empires. The Jivaro once had to face a Spanish governor, who was too greedy and wanted to impose taxes on them. The Jivaro poured molten gold down his throat and they only stopped when his bowels bursted.

[Quentyn the Blazed]

In the Tyrion chapter in ADWD when he is on the Selaesori Qhoran:

the fourth and final volume of The Life of the Triarch Belicho, a famous Volantene patriot whose unbroken succession of conquests and triumphs ended rather abruptly when he was eaten by giants.

And in the appendix of people in Old Volantis:

—BELICHO STAEGONE, a candidate for triarch,

It hurts being a patriots fan when GRRM makes football references...

Edited February 1, 2013 by Quentyn the Blazed

[Light a wight tonight]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think Lann the Clever is a GRRM homage to s-f/fantasy author Jack Vance's most famous character, Cugel the Clever. GRRM is a known Vance fan. Swindling a family out of their hereditary castle is just the sort of thing Cugel might have done.

Cugel is an epic screw-up, though. Clever in his own mind only. Recall his botched try at the Spell of Forlorn Encystment.

[Jon Wolfwalker]

The volcano on Dragonstone is called Dragonmont and in tWoT there's a volcano called Dragonmount.

[Light a wight tonight]

Another Jack Vance reference that I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is that in the Sorrows as Tyrion, Jon Con, Aegon, et al travel down the Rhoyne there is a ruined building called the Palace of Love, which is the name of book three of the Demon Princes series.

Commenting on the "cellar door" discussion from a while back, the door to the crypts at Winterfell are very much like the cellar doors attached to many American homes prior to WW II. Seems like a silly way to build it.

[Castellan]

I was reading another thread about Littlefinger when suddenly Steerpike from Gormanghast sprung to mind. Secretly lusting after a daughter of the house and plotting to make the house and the daughter his own..... Don't know if its a reference or homage or just a classic theme they both draw on. I gotta say I shudder when I think of Steerpike but Littlefinger is not yet quite as horrible, in my mind anyway....

hmmmm I just saw another similarity in the way Littlefinger gets control of the dotty Lysa and then dispatches her and the way Steerpike locks up those dotty maiden aunts to starve.

[Theda Baratheon]

I can't believe I've been missing this thread and it's right in stickies :lol:

[Theda Baratheon]

OH; I did notice there's a Castle of the Night's Watch called Icemark (if I'm remembering correctly) and there is a fantasy series 'Cry of the Ice Mark' but I'm not sure if there are any real connections, as ASOIAF seems to be much older.

[A Crow Come Over]

Greywater Watch and Howland Reed are references to Howl's Moving Castle, I believe.

Interestingly enough, Howl's Moving Castle features a girl who is transformed into an old woman and back again to a young girl.

[Light a wight tonight]

Another Conan reference: in Asha's chapter in Dragons where the Northeners re-take Deepwood Motte one of the Ironborn is named Cromm, the Cimmerian deity that Conan invokes all the time ("By Crom!") Dagon isn't the only god name the Ironborn use.