Roose Bolton, is he actually evil?

[OberynBlackfyre]

Are you seriously arguing that the characters mentioned by David Selig are morally grey? Really?

I couldn't disagree more. Yeah, the vast majority of characters are grey, but I think people just have to stop banging on about how 'every character is grey' because it simply isn't true. The vast majority of characters are indeed grey, same as in our world. At the same time, there are truly good characters, truly bad characters, and sick sadistic psychos; again, exactly like in our world.

that's bull, because like many people in our world, you don't know their story. like the Hound, he was in a way made that way because of his childhood and atrocities done against him. For all you know Vargo Hoat could have been raped multiple times, and beaten bloody as a child, which made him the way he is. Saying that someone is completely evil is like saying people cannot be redeemed when this series has proven the exact opposite. Some people just are part of the extremes. But we don't know what made them that way. That would be like blaming Sansa for being innocent and naive.

[David Selig]

As i recall when the Brave Companions came on Jaime and Brienne she was trying to drown him. That is oathbreaking and doesnt sound morally pure at all.

First, she let him get away, second, he was trying to kill her and deserves death for his various crimes, so even if she had drowned him, that wouldn't have made her less morally pure.

Other than Brienne none of the characters you named were povs so you cant really know their intentions unless you know what these characters are thinking.

What's your point? Only PoV characters can be evil? Where's the logic in that? We see the acts of those guys, I don't care what they were thinking, they are 100% evil.

[kissdbyfire]

that's bull, because like many people in our world, you don't know their story. like the Hound, he was in a way made that way because of his childhood and atrocities done against him. For all you know Vargo Hoat could have been raped multiple times, and beaten bloody as a child, which made him the way he is. Saying that someone is completely evil is like saying people cannot be redeemed when this series has proven the exact opposite. Some people just are part of the extremes. But we don't know what made them that way. That would be like blaming Sansa for being innocent and naive.

Sorry, but by using Sandor as an example you're kind of making my point for me regarding Gregor. And I disagree with your argument. I'm sure there are tons of rl examples of people who went through hell and didn't became Vargos or Gregors.

You're trying to justify some types of behaviour that, to me, cannot have any justification, in ASoIaF or in real life.

[brashcandy]

that's bull, because like many people in our world, you don't know their story. like the Hound, he was in a way made that way because of his childhood and atrocities done against him. For all you know Vargo Hoat could have been raped multiple times, and beaten bloody as a child, which made him the way he is. Saying that someone is completely evil is like saying people cannot be redeemed when this series has proven the exact opposite. Some people just are part of the extremes. But we don't know what made them that way. That would be like blaming Sansa for being innocent and naive.

:shocked:

[mcb]

In my mind what sets asoiaf apart from other fantasy is that there arent good guys and there arent evil guys. Every character has "good" qualities and "evil" qualities

:bs:

That common wisdom gets thrown around here every so often, but it's simply not true. While ASOIAF isn't "Lord of the Rings", we have characters made almost only of pure evil. Ramsay. Gregor. Pretty much every Bloody Mummer individually. You might try to point out signs of goodness in Septon Utt and Kraznys mo Nakloz, but that would be only an exercise in sophism.

[otherbeef]

that's bull, because like many people in our world, you don't know their story. like the Hound, he was in a way made that way because of his childhood and atrocities done against him. For all you know Vargo Hoat could have been raped multiple times, and beaten bloody as a child, which made him the way he is. Saying that someone is completely evil is like saying people cannot be redeemed when this series has proven the exact opposite. Some people just are part of the extremes. But we don't know what made them that way. That would be like blaming Sansa for being innocent and naive.

like others have said, experiencing horrible things as a child is no excuse for committing vile acts later in life...

maybe these characters aren't "pure evil" in the the extreme sense, but they should still be considered about as evil as a human being can be (especially Ramsay)

[mcb]

that's bull, because like many people in our world, you don't know their story. like the Hound, he was in a way made that way because of his childhood and atrocities done against him. For all you know Vargo Hoat could have been raped multiple times, and beaten bloody as a child, which made him the way he is. Saying that someone is completely evil is like saying people cannot be redeemed when this series has proven the exact opposite. Some people just are part of the extremes. But we don't know what made them that way. That would be like blaming Sansa for being innocent and naive.

With that caveat, you can as well argue that neither Sauron, the Joker, Palpatine nor Moriarty were "evil", and the word itself is just another name for the empty set. You're not arguing Roose's case, you're rewriting the dictionary.

[Khal Cherian]

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"This miller's marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day."

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Yeah, Roose is a real peach...

I think all the bolton's are pretty evil, but all the same that is one of my favorite line in all the books, its just so badass!

[*Ceallach*]

If all you see of a person is what they do, never "know" them, they are evil in your eyes.Doesnt make them so in theirs. Evil like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. That being said,

So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying.

Sociopath. This reeks of someone who honey badgers their way through life.

Also, Dreadfort has a room full of Stark skins (i think they are starks anyway) so i don't believe the Boltons are downtrodden as much as people think.

Roose i cannot stand because he not only has done some truly despicable things in this series, he's watched his spawn do more.

The thing is in this series (in my Humble Opinion) people seem to be reaping what they sow. so good old cold eyes might be in for a rude shock.

[direwolf_of_white_fangs]

Is this a tricky question?

- Off course the he is! Not as disturbed as his son Ramsay but still pretty much there.

He murdered and betrayed his king Robb.

His son is a cruel sadist that skins people alive and hunts people for sport.

House Bolton is evil.

[Helgar]

that's bull, because like many people in our world, you don't know their story. like the Hound, he was in a way made that way because of his childhood and atrocities done against him. For all you know Vargo Hoat could have been raped multiple times, and beaten bloody as a child, which made him the way he is. Saying that someone is completely evil is like saying people cannot be redeemed when this series has proven the exact opposite. Some people just are part of the extremes. But we don't know what made them that way. That would be like blaming Sansa for being innocent and naive.

Having a terrible past does not justify becoming a terrible person. People can be completely evil even if they have gone through a lot. Similarly, people can go through a lot without becoming completely evil.

On topic, Roose Bolton is evil. He is not a sadist like Ramsay, but he is cruel and cold, shows highly sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies, is completely without scruples and sentiment for other people. He has no qualms about raping or mistreating women and enables Ramsay's heinous acts without so much as blinking. He calls it 'his fun'. And he wears pink. Doesn't get much more evil than that.

[Mother of Kittens]

Roose is the root of all evil.

[Helgar]

Roose is the root of all evil.

The Roose of all evil!

[direwolf_of_white_fangs]

I just wonder:

Joff was the first evil little guy. Then came a more sinister form of evil' the boltons...

But what evil will come next if they die, which they will likely do in winds ?

- Victarion? The others? but the others lack so far a dark lord or something...

[balefired-ed]

[Lion of Judah]

In truth I would find a guy like Roose cool if it wasn't for the human torture and his propensity to commit acts of rape. Other than those two things I can't blame the guy for thinking about number one.

[Stannis the Wight]

I too don't believe in a clear distinction between good and evil, it's all a matter of perspective.

Roose is pretty much a Northern version of Tywin. He's an opportunist and he doesn't care how he assumes his power, it's all about the end to him. But unlike Tywin he enjoys getting his hands dirty where as Tywin just orders people to do his bidding. This is where the "Northern" distinction comes in.

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

Hell yea he's evil. Also, why doesn't anybody call him Kingslayer. He bent the knee to a dude, called him King, then killed him. Sounds like kingslaying to me.

[direwolf_of_white_fangs]

" I too don't believe in a clear distinction between good and evil, it's all a matter of perspective. "

Killing, raping, torturing is not a matter of perspective. It is evil and bad.

There are good people and bad people in Westeros with all their middle age laws and lack of social contract.

I'm sorry but somethings are not "matters of perspective". IT is or it is not. Black or white. Good or evil.

Horrible things such as Ramsay and Roose did do fall into the bad / wrong / evil category.

[miguel sanchez]

Somebody is trying to argue that Roose Bolton isn't evil?? I'm done with this forum! But seriously, Roose is clearly a very bad guy.

Remember his story of how he came to conceive Ramsay? He found that a farmer on his land had himself a pretty young wife and hadn't told Roose about it. Since he still keeps lords right on his lands, secretly, he felt he had been cheated by the farmer. So he hanged him and raped the woman under the still hanging corpse. Ned Stark would never hear about this kind of thing happening on Bolton territory, "a peaceful land a quiet people", that's always been his rule. Isn't it clear? He's horrendous to his own people, but they never run off to tell the Starks or anybody, why? They're terrified of Bolton, and they must be pretty damn scared of him. The reason why is not elaborated on but from the casual manner in which he tells that monstrous story leads one to make certain presumptions about his history...

That's just one example, I didn't much care for his treatment of the woman at harrenhal, there's another.

Perhaps he doesn't mean to be sadistic, like Ramsay, and he doesn't get explicit enjoyment out of others suffering, he still doesn't care about the feelings, well being, or lives of anybody and he will abuse, kill, rape etc. anybody if it serves his goals. Isn't that a form of evil?