Florina Laufeyson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Are you seriously implying that because rape is common, that it's not an evil act? I got to say that's the first thing on this boards that has genuinely offended me.Oh ye sweet summer child. So many offensive things are said here...I like Roose.As a villainCuz dude is gnarly. gnarly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis the Wight Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. I don't believe in evil as some sort of supernatural force that exists in the world.The actions of people should be judged by two things; their intention and the resultSo what do we have with ole' Roose?1. Betrayed his King, agreed to the murder of hundreds of his King's bannermen and previous allies.Intent = end the war of five kings, further weaken the Stark familyresult = declared Warden in the North for this act of murderous betrayal2. Kills a miller, rapes his wife under the tree which her dead husband is hanging fromintent = display power of authorityresult = one innocent dead, one innocent raped and scarred for life3. Uses a hostage to pose as Arya and weds her to Ramsay, who he knows is a sick individualintent = claim a castle that is not his in order to solidify his new positionresult = he "legitimizes" his claim to the north and Winterfell under a false pretenseHe is heartless, opportunistic, stern and individual minded. From his view all the things he has done were in order to preserve and improve his position. People are pawns, their pain and suffering mean nothing to him so long as he stays where he is. Not too different from Tywin.If this is the definition of evil: commonly associated with conscious and deliberate wrongdoing, discrimination designed to harm others, humiliation of people designed to diminish their psychological well-being and dignity, destructiveness, motives of causing pain or suffering for selfish or malicious intentions, and acts of unnecessary or indiscriminate violence.Then yeah, Roose is definitely evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Head of the Ned, yarr.Personally, i found Roose to be smarter than Tywin....And as a result, he will fall harder than Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Is it possible that was a retcon? Sure, there's a lot of time between Game and Dance and Martin has changed things from the first book. The Manderlys go from just being another northern house that simply had southron traits due to their location to being an actual southron house that came north.But there are suggestions of Ned's feelings for Bolton from the very beginning.“Mercy is never a mistake, Lord Renly,” Ned replied. “On the Trident, Ser Barristan here cut down a dozen good men, Robert’s friends and mine. When they brought him to us, grievously wounded and near death, Roose Bolton urged us to cut his throat, but your brother said, ‘I will not kill a man for loyalty, nor for fighting well,’ and sent his own maester to tend Ser Barristan’s wounds.” He gave the king a long cool look. “Would that man were here today.”Considering he's using that story as a way to shame Robert it's pretty clear he doesn't have the highest opinion of Roose.Even Cat has some idea of who is who in the north and who can be trusted more than others.You cannot afford to seem indecisive in front of men like Roose Bolton and Rickard Karstark.I don't see it a coincidence that the two men she's warning Robb he can't appear weak to are the same two bannermen he ends up having the most trouble with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Wait...no there isnt a point. I actually misquoted somehow. I meant to quote JonisnoGarySnow.Wtf....So like totes didnt even what...Edited my post for clarity. Srsly how did that even happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Wait...no there isnt a point. I actually misquoted somehow. I meant to quote JonisnoGarySnow.Wtf....So like totes didnt even what...Edited my post for clarity. Srsly how did that even happen...It felt strange enough I had to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Its all good. No idea wtf was going with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Roose Bolton is one of my favorite characters in this series and yet he is most certainly "evil" judging by his actions, atleast I would think so had I been exposed to his "justice". Of course other Lords acts like this during wartime etc and yet I still think that Roose does it not simply because of nescessity but because he has taken a liking to it. He is no Ramsay sure but nor is he a saint by any means, heh would be fun if someone argued that he was.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 If he's not, who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top12Gun Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Roose is self serving, above all else. Wherever that leads, he follows. Not evil because he enjoys it (like his sadistic son) but because of where it can take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 God...not everyone is 'gray'! Some characters are just evil! Roose is one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 God...not everyone is 'gray'! Some characters are just evil! Roose is one of themSome people disagree and i am one of them. He is self serving, if it serves him to be good and loyal he will do that, if it serves him to betray people he will do that too. As for the rapes he commits or agrees with that is the norm in much of westeros and the North where Lords still reserve the right to bed women before they are married"According to Roose Bolton, Umber lords still practice the banned tradition of the Lord's right to First Night despite claiming they do not" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 No, flaying and raping is just a neat hobby of his. Kind of like Ramsay kidnapping girls and letting his dogs rape them. Just good fun, not much to do in the cold and snowy North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Some people disagree and i am one of them. He is self serving, if it serves him to be good and loyal he will do that, if it serves him to betray people he will do that too. As for the rapes he commits or agrees with that is the norm in much of westeros and the North where Lords still reserve the right to bed women before they are married"According to Roose Bolton, Umber lords still practice the banned tradition of the Lord's right to First Night despite claiming they do not"First Night was outlawed in Westeros and it is why the Umbers deny doing so. Roose admitted raping the miller's wife (and hanging the bridesgroom) on several occaissions, but it wasn't really because of the First Night rule but because he thought one of his smallfolk was bragging too much and acting uppity IIRC.Then there's the flaying. And the small fact that he betrayed and murdered his king. If Roose is grey, it's in a tone that is bordering black...No, flaying and raping is just a neat hobby of his. Kind of like Ramsay kidnapping girls and letting his dogs rape them. Just good fun, not much to do in the cold and snowy North.Television hasn't been invented yet and a boy's gotta have some fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TristanGreyjoy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Somebody is trying to argue that Roose Bolton isn't evil?? I'm done with this forum! But seriously, Roose is clearly a very bad guy.Remember his story of how he came to conceive Ramsay? He found that a farmer on his land had himself a pretty young wife and hadn't told Roose about it. Since he still keeps lords right on his lands, secretly, he felt he had been cheated by the farmer. So he hanged him and raped the woman under the still hanging corpse. Ned Stark would never hear about this kind of thing happening on Bolton territory, "a peaceful land a quiet people", that's always been his rule. Isn't it clear? He's horrendous to his own people, but they never run off to tell the Starks or anybody, why? They're terrified of Bolton, and they must be pretty damn scared of him. The reason why is not elaborated on but from the casual manner in which he tells that monstrous story leads one to make certain presumptions about his history...That's just one example, I didn't much care for his treatment of the woman at harrenhal, there's another.Perhaps he doesn't mean to be sadistic, like Ramsay, and he doesn't get explicit enjoyment out of others suffering, he still doesn't care about the feelings, well being, or lives of anybody and he will abuse, kill, rape etc. anybody if it serves his goals. Isn't that a form of evil?So being devoid of emotion automatically means your evil? Which side of this argument is rewriting the dictionary again? Is this a tricky question?- Off course the he is! Not as disturbed as his son Ramsay but still pretty much there.He murdered and betrayed his king Robb.His son is a cruel sadist that skins people alive and hunts people for sport.House Bolton is evil.He murdered and betrayed a prideful arrogant fool who lost the north, and wouldnt bend the knee when all was lost because of his daddy issuesHe is not responsible for the actions of his son, and couldnt change them if he wanted to. What the hell is this based off of?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Hornwood Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 He murdered and betrayed a prideful arrogant fool who lost the north, and wouldnt bend the knee when all was lost because of his daddy issuesHow does this make it ok to murder him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damar Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 He murdered and betrayed a prideful arrogant fool who lost the north, and wouldnt bend the knee when all was lost because of his daddy issuesWhat? How utterly stupid can someone be to write something like this?If Robb somehow got braindead enough to bend the knee, in which case no one in the North would respect the Starks as their lord paramount, they would demand Robb to go to KL and be killed by Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerNotAppearingInThisFilm Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Roose is my favorite villain in the series. He's outwardly pretty non-threatening, look at how Theon views him before he gets to know him. But I always found his pale eyes, his soft voice, and his leeches really chilling and creepy. It was pretty clear from Arya's first encounters with him that he was going to be a villain. And yes, he's totally evil. Rape and torture are evil. Duh. I don't care what your motivation is, if you are an admitted rapist, and a serial torturer, you're evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaele Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Roose is not EVIL. I don't believe in any true EVIL forces or characters within this series. Roose is opportunistic, and virtually emotionless. I would say he is a few pegs below evil. BUT I do hate Roose.He killed his King he swore to (In his defense, a trait that was admired in Ned was that he did the deed himself), along with his other Northern allies. andIgnored the cruel and despicable deeds of his own son, including the murder of his other son.Roose will do whatever it takes to increase the standing of his own House, which while I don't agree with the methods he chooses, I understand his philosophy is "the ends justify the means" so i can't view him as EVIL. Even though the actions he chooses to promote himself and his house are certainly malevolent.But he kiilled Robb, so screw Roose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TristanGreyjoy Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 What? How utterly stupid can someone be to write something like this?If Robb somehow got braindead enough to bend the knee, in which case no one in the North would respect the Starks as their lord paramount, they would demand Robb to go to KL and be killed by Joffrey.Robb is braindead thats the point. The Starks remained lords paramount over the north when King Torrhen bent the knee. Perhaps, Joffrey would demand that Robb come to KL ro die, but Lord Tywin would see the oppurtunity in a king that bends the knee instead of having to be utterly destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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