Valyrian Armor

[WhiteWalder]

Simple cost/benefit analysis.

Valyrian steel is insanely expensive. It would take much more Valyrian steel to make a cuirass than it would to make a sword. Meanwhile, the benefit of the Valyrian steel in a cuirass would be much less.

Why? Firstly because in general, regular steel cuirasses are sufficient to be impenetrable to regular steel weapons. And those are 99.9% of the weapons you're ever going to see. Second, because most of the damage a man in full plate takes in battle is from the concussive force of the blow, not slashing damage. This is still going to be true if you're wearing Valyrian steel. It's not going to offer any superior protection from this type of damage. And third, you're still going to have vulnerable joints, etc.

The expense would be massive and the benefits solely restricted to fighting opponents with Valyrian steel weapons. By contrast, a Valyrian steel weapon offers an advantage in any combat and is much cheaper. If Valyrian steel is in short supply, simple economics dictates that many more customers will want to buy weapons, so that's what smiths will make. Hence, no VS armour.

I'm sure if somebody wants VS armor, the last concern would be economics, even if it costs as much as 40 swords. There is always some rich person that wants something that nobody can have. It's like a person buying Bugatti Veryron - you can't drive 270 mph anywhere except a superspeed test track. It is purely for show or status. If it can be made, then I'm sure a king or extremely rich person has a set of VS armor, even if it is just for show. If you can afford it, why not?

[Ser Lepus]

I'm sure if somebody wants VS armor, the last concern would be economics, even if it costs as much as 40 swords. There is always some rich person that wants something that nobody can have. It's like a person buying Bugatti Veryron - you can't drive 270 mph anywhere except a superspeed test track. It is purely for show or status. If it can be made, then I'm sure a king or extremely rich person has a set of VS armor, even if it is just for show. If you can afford it, why not?

The point is, a valyrian sword is already the most expensive object in the world, enough to ruin the richest man there is: Its price is "as much as you can pay". Tywin could lend three millions of gold dragons to the crown, but couldn't buy a valyrian sword, and he probably was the person who owned more gold coins in the whole world.

So if even Tywin couldn't afford to buy a valyrian sword -all the money he could offer wasn't enough for the owners of valyrian blades -he for sure couldn't afford to buy a valyrian armor and nobody can.

Tywin would probably have been able to pay a fourth of his fortune for a 2 lb valyrian blade. But in order to pay a 40 lb valyrian armor at the same price per pound, he would have to pay five times more than all the money he had.

Buying a valyrian sword isn't like buying an expensive car: It's like buying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore (the original ones, not copies). Buying a valyrian armor would be like buying the Statue of Liberty, Mount Rushmore, Eiffel Tower, the Tower of Pisa, the Alhambra Palace, the Forbidden Palace and the Corcovado Mountain in a package.

[BlackBrother55]

Not much you know about metal, then. Flexibility is very important due to the massive shocks involved when using a sword, just see any of the high-speed footage of the tests done by the royal armouries. Also, a sword that is too hard would be chipped more often than a flexible one - flexibility does not equal softness, but crystal minerals are often easier to chip away at than steel, since they lack the ability to absorb shock.

If you don't believe me, read anything written by any competent sword expert. This site would be a good start:

http://www.myarmoury.com/home.php

P.S. Just apply basic physics. When the material is too soft, it gets deformed by pressure. When the material is too hard, it has no way of absorbing the pressure without losing its structural integrity. But if it's both hard and flexible, it will get neither deformed, nor broken, due to the ability to absorb shock through reversible deformation.

Thats true and valyrian steel as it is described in the books could logically be made into a suit of armor, but the cost would have been immense, so understandably, probably very few were made.

[CrowsBeforeHoes]

I agree with the notion that the Valyrian steel might've always been too scarce or valuable to make armor out of.

Although two of the Royces are dead, I still have faith in the rune armour. Perhaps Waymar and Robar weren't wearing theirs when they were killed.. And maybe I just want to see beastly Bronze Yohn Royce going at it.

[Maia]

Tywin could lend three millions of gold dragons to the crown, but couldn't buy a valyrian sword, and he probably was the person who owned more gold coins in the whole world.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense, actually, because in Essos, some Valyrian weapons are in hands of sellswords, rather than being treasured family heirlooms. Why didn't Tywin, or , for that matter, later Targaryens buy their blades there? Unless they wanted ones with proper Westerosi legend attached, that is.

I also never understood why Maege sent Longclaw to Jeor on the Wall after Jorah left. This is not WoT where women are somehow magically incapable of using swords and sooner or later a male heir to House Mormont would come along too. She deprived Mormonts of a priceless heirloom... why exactly?

[The Dragon has three heads]

The point is, a valyrian sword is already the most expensive object in the world, enough to ruin the richest man there is: Its price is "as much as you can pay". Tywin could lend three millions of gold dragons to the crown, but couldn't buy a valyrian sword, and he probably was the person who owned more gold coins in the whole world.

So if even Tywin couldn't afford to buy a valyrian sword -all the money he could offer wasn't enough for the owners of valyrian blades -he for sure couldn't afford to buy a valyrian armor and nobody can.

Tywin would probably have been able to pay a fourth of his fortune for a 2 lb valyrian blade. But in order to pay a 40 lb valyrian armor at the same price per pound, he would have to pay five times more than all the money he had.

Buying a valyrian sword isn't like buying an expensive car: It's like buying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore (the original ones, not copies). Buying a valyrian armor would be like buying the Statue of Liberty, Mount Rushmore, Eiffel Tower, the Tower of Pisa, the Alhambra Palace, the Forbidden Palace and the Corcovado Mountain in a package.

*casts threadmancey*

Yes, now, or in the current timeline.

But when the lords of the free hold cut their meat with VS daggers and all were armed with VS swords.

Surely someone got the idea to make VS or similar chain mail, or helm, or cuirass.

Even as a simple status symbol it would be extremely effective and set you above the other lords.

The cost benefit analysis assume that the timeline and economics then was the same as the timeline now, which I believe thy aren't.

[The Dragon has three heads]

The point is, a valyrian sword is already the most expensive object in the world, enough to ruin the richest man there is: Its price is "as much as you can pay". Tywin could lend three millions of gold dragons to the crown, but couldn't buy a valyrian sword, and he probably was the person who owned more gold coins in the whole world.

So if even Tywin couldn't afford to buy a valyrian sword -all the money he could offer wasn't enough for the owners of valyrian blades -he for sure couldn't afford to buy a valyrian armor and nobody can.

Tywin would probably have been able to pay a fourth of his fortune for a 2 lb valyrian blade. But in order to pay a 40 lb valyrian armor at the same price per pound, he would have to pay five times more than all the money he had.

Buying a valyrian sword isn't like buying an expensive car: It's like buying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore (the original ones, not copies). Buying a valyrian armor would be like buying the Statue of Liberty, Mount Rushmore, Eiffel Tower, the Tower of Pisa, the Alhambra Palace, the Forbidden Palace and the Corcovado Mountain in a package.

Double

[Ser Lepus]

Which doesn't make a lot of sense, actually, because in Essos, some Valyrian weapons are in hands of sellswords, rather than being treasured family heirlooms. Why didn't Tywin, or , for that matter, later Targaryens buy their blades there? Unless they wanted ones with proper Westerosi legend attached, that is.

That dothraki sellsword probably stole it from a wealthy owner, and now refuses to sell it because of his pride: He values that sword more than anything else in the world because of the status it represents.

But yes, the Tattered Prince should have killed him and sold the sword to Tywin. Maybe he's making his time, waiting for a chance to kill him without raising suspicions from the other sellwords?

I also never understood why Maege sent Longclaw to Jeor on the Wall after Jorah left. This is not WoT where women are somehow magically incapable of using swords and sooner or later a male heir to House Mormont would come along too. She deprived Mormonts of a priceless heirloom... why exactly?

I always assumed that Maege thought that Jeor would arrange for the sword to be sent back home after his demise. But old Jeor had another plans (Maege will rage when she learns what he did).

*casts threadmancey*

Yes, now, or in the current timeline.

But when the lords of the free hold cut their meat with VS daggers and all were armed with VS swords.

Surely someone got the idea to make VS or similar chain mail, or helm, or cuirass.

Even as a simple status symbol it would be extremely effective and set you above the other lords.

The cost benefit analysis assume that the timeline and economics then was the same as the timeline now, which I believe thy aren't.

I suspect the valyrian nobility never had many valyrian swords made. They kept them just for themselves as yet another status symbol, so they made sure they didn't become common, and that's the reason they are seen as supreme status symbols.

I believe that the valyrians had valyrian steel armor, but after the Doom when the secret for making more valyrian steel was lost, the armors were melted to make swords, which were sold to make money. For all we know, most westerosi valyrian swords were made from the plates of the Targayren family, during those years in between the Doom and the Conquest they were stuck in Dragonstone.

[Ser Lepus]

Error

[KittyLuv]

During Sansa's escape from King's Landing, after Joff's murder, she and Dontos pass some *very* interesting armor in the tunnels leading out of the castle and into the cliffs below. Dragon-like and unusual. Definitely left room in my mind for it to be of Valyrian Steel and perhaps long forgotten.

[Dimples]

Although two of the Royces are dead, I still have faith in the rune armour. Perhaps Waymar and Robar weren't wearing theirs when they were killed.. And maybe I just want to see beastly Bronze Yohn Royce going at it.

Uh...wtf?

[GalladonDayne]

Waymar wasn't, being in the Night's Watch and wearing the Black. IDK about Robar.

[Dimples]

Waymar wasn't, being in the Night's Watch and wearing the Black. IDK about Robar.

You do realize that the Royces only have one suit, right...?

[aryagonnakill#2]

^ Maybe they only have 1 ancient suit but both Bronze Yhons sons wore armor with runes on it at the tourney in KL for Neds becoming hand.

[Dimples]

^ Maybe they only have 1 ancient suit but both Bronze Yhons sons wore armor with runes on it at the tourney in KL for Neds becoming hand.

Quote?

[Corvinus85]

^ Maybe they only have 1 ancient suit but both Bronze Yhons sons wore armor with runes on it at the tourney in KL for Neds becoming hand.

Quote?

Though I don't have the book in front of me, I will second aryagonnakill#2 that at the Tourney of the Hand all the Royces had armor with runes.

Also if the discussion is whether or not rune armor does protect the wearer from physical damage, that is BS.

TWOIAF spoiler below

King Robar II most definitely wore his rune armor at the Battle of the Seven Stars, and he died.

Now it may be that rune armor protects the wearer from the ice swords of the Others, and other forms of sorcery, but Waymar was not wearing such armor.

[Dimples]

Though I don't have the book in front of me, I will second aryagonnakill#2 that at the Tourney of the Hand all the Royces had armor with runes.

Also if the discussion is whether or not rune armor does protect the wearer from physical damage, that is BS.

TWOIAF spoiler below

King Robar II most definitely wore his rune armor at the Battle of the Seven Stars, and he died.

Now it may be that rune armor protects the wearer from the ice swords of the Others, and other forms of sorcery, but Waymar was not wearing such armor.

While they may have all had armor with runes, IIRC House Royce only has one ancestral suit of 'magical' bronze.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

While they may have all had armor with runes, IIRC House Royce only has one ancestral suit of 'magical' bronze.

It is said in the world book that the runes are supposed to protect them from harm, not the outdated bronze armor. It also doesn't work.

Even to this day, the Lords of Runstone go into battle clad in the bronze armor of their forebears, etched with runes that are said to ward the armor's wearer from harm. Alas, the number of Royces who have died whilst wearing this runic armor is daunting.

[Universal Sword Donor]

While they may have all had armor with runes, IIRC House Royce only has one ancestral suit of 'magical' bronze.

Unless Robar and Andar can wear the same armor at the same time, they definitely have multiple sets. Sansa watches Yohn, Andar, and Robar at the tourney and they are all wearing the armor.

[Dimples]

Unless Robar and Andar can wear the same armor at the same time, they definitely have multiple sets. Sansa watches Yohn, Andar, and Robar at the tourney and they are all wearing the armor.

Wait, so are they wearing bronze armor, or different armor with runes on it?