Tyrion as hand of the king

[A Dance With Daario]

courtesy of queen cercei I, who was unfortunatly banned :(

"The thing that kills me about Tyrion is that he almost never gets truly held responsible for his idiotic deeds and slip ups while ruling.

Tyrion, in his spot as hand at King's Landing, makes numerous generalized mistakes, all of which are glossed over as his brilliance, "badassery,"decency, and compassion are endlessly vaunted.

Tyrion:


--Is guilty of truly horrible PR. Though Cersei is endlessly held as idiotic for this mistake in AFFC, Tyrion actually commits the exact same error in ACOK and ASOS. He never tries to get out there and interact with the people, and neglects to take the crucial step of creating a positive, likeable public image. (I think this would have been very possible, despite his dwarfism, if he would have taken the right steps.) He alienates the people by doing things like bringing in the violent, uncouth mountain clans that terrorized Kings Landing, and led to numerous murders and violent acts that the people blamed him for. He acts (it would appear, if one steps back and views his actions from the outside, rather than taking it for granted that we know what's going on in his head, and that he is "good") haughty and superior rather than coming across as “a friend of the people.”

Taking all this into account, it is no surprise that everyone takes a dislike to him, and blames him for the famine and for controlling Joffrey. The places where Tyrion is shocked to learn that the people of kings landing blame him for the famine and when he is filled with self righteous hatred when they laugh at him at his trial are masterpieces of manipulation-- both make the reader, unambiguously, feel a deep pity for Tyrion, and see the smallfolk as ungrateful, cruel, and foolish.

I've heard numerous people note this, going on about the resident's of kings landings stupidity, ingratitude, ect. It is implied that these people hate Tyrion simply because Tyrion is a dwarf. However, IMO, they merely hate him because, through his own actions, he has alienated the people and made himself the perfect scapegoat. If Tyrion would have tried to interact with the people, did public good works for them, not brought on a bunch of barbarians to wreak havoc amongst their city, and somehow made his opposition to his nephew and championing of the rights of the smallfolk clear in some subtle way on a few occasions, he could have, I genuinely believe, earned the affection of the smallfolk.

However, as things happened, all the common people saw was a haughty man who brought a bunch of murdering savages into kings landing for selfish purposes and then failed to control them; was clearly a part of the destructive, untrustworthy Lannister family; employed and kept company with fierce savage killers like Bronn; committed several acts of gratuitous and off putting violence, including his unnecessarily violent "questioning" of old Maester pycelle (which the tv series sanitized, but which, in the books, featured Tyrion having three men hold Pycelle down and order one to hold a knife to Pycelles genitals, threatening to cut it off); failed to interact with or reach out to the smallfolk or express concern for them in any apparent way; and who generally, by all appearances, seemed allied with Joffrey.

Given all that, it is not surprising that the smallfolk assumed that Tyrion was allied with Joffrey. And given Joffrey's young age and the nature of some of Tyrion's violent, publically known acts, it is not surprising that the people assumed that Tyrion was the one controlling Joffrey, "playing on the pipes as the crown prince danced."

Clearly, Tyrion is guilty of lousy PR, here. Perhaps even more so than Cersei.

-- Is responsible for the mountain clans murdering numerous people, and wreaking havoc on Kings Landing.

-- Alienated and earned the enmity of Joffrey at every turn, instead of trying to manipulate this clearly dumb and easily led boy. (LF found out how to control the boy in one night; Tyrion cannot figure out to control him in, what, like, 2 years?) Whether it is due to Tyrion's pride or his arrogance or his hatred for and vendetta against Cersei that seemed to serve as a guiding force in AGOT and ASOS he failed her. Big time.

-- Openly threatening Joffrey, the all-powerful crown prince, and making his hatred for the boy well known on what felt like every possible occasion. Readers, it felt like, are encouraged to cheer for Tyrion "putting that douche bag Joffrey in his place" and see Tyrion as brilliant and awesome. However, the fact is that Tyrion both earned the crowned kings rage and, worse, made it all too easy for everyone to later believe that Tyrion had murdered the boy. I'm sorry, but given lines like the following: "Joffrey has earned himself a dagger, don't you think?", I don't think that Cersei and Tywin's assumption that Tyrion was guilty was based upon unfair persecution of Tyrion because of his dwarfism. It was simply because, due to his own idiotic words and actions, Tyrion looks as guilty as sin.

--Wasted time on personal, selfish issues that should have been spent doing his real job. Bringing Shae to Kings Landing because he wanted to defy daddy and get laid is an action that does not receive nearly enough criticism. Far worse than anything Dany did with Daario. It led Tyrion to waste a bunch of time scheming and hiding Shae when he should have been doing his job.

--Let his immature hatred and rivalry with Cersei get in the way of being a wise and mature leader. The reader is encouraged to sympathize and root for Tyrion throughout the duration of this. I, however, simply thought Tyrion and Cersei were both being childish idiots."

This was a great comment, and i thought it deserved a thread of its own.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Oh, I know, Queen Cersei I's comments were sometimes quite brilliant, but this one could be much better. ;) Go to a Sansa-thread, put 'Tyrion' in a comment and they will teach you how Tyrion actually is and what kind of stupid mistakes he made. I mean, she puts too much emphasis on the Mountain Clans (really, did they kill that many for no apparent reason?) who also helped King's Landing in battles.

As for the rest, yeah. I kinda agree. Although, I have to say, before coming to this forum and interacting with others about ASOIAF, I was a very sweet summer child about pretty much everything. (I didn't even get R+L=J).

[The Mountain That Posts]

This fails to mention the douchebaggish manipulation tactics Tyrion does.

Forcefully removing Lord Janos Slynt, commander of the city watch, and six higher up officers in their ranks and forcing them to get on a boat to Eastwatch the next morning?

Lying and telling Littlefinger, Pycelle and Varys all different stories about what he intends to do with the heirs? Yes, obviously this was necessary to find Cersei's worm, but Tyrion should've been clever enough to trust none of them(especially Littlefinger, since Tyrion already knows from Cat about how Littlefinger lied about the dagger) and this outright lying and manipulation, if got out to the people, clearly would've been a disaster.

And what was all that about abducting Tommen? It's been a while since I read the second book, but it seemed to me that the Queen / mother of Tommen has a general... you know, authority over where her son goes. Tyrion sending Bronn and the city watch to abduct Tommen made me want to rage. (at least it proved to us how cowardly Boros is, and we got Balon Swann in the kingsguard as a result, right? My memory could be off)

Also, doesn't that Alayaya or whatever her name is, whore end up getting publicly beaten and whipped through the streets? Just another part of the WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING TYRION, JUST MASTURBATE IF YOU'RE SO HORNY.

Finally, while I understand the necessity of destroying all the buildings and such outside of King's Landing, Tyrion really should've warned the people that they would be doing this... BEFORE the day of. If I was a shopowner, i'd be mighty pissed too. This is just good strategic planning being mixed with terribad public relations.

Also, Tyrion was a total douchebag to all the smiths when he was ordering them to make the chain.

[TheGriffonReborn]

This fails to mention the douchebaggish manipulation tactics Tyrion does.

Forcefully removing Lord Janos Slynt, commander of the city watch, and six higher up officers in their ranks and forcing them to get on a boat to Eastwatch the next morning?

They had it coming. They killed innocent kids and a baby. They also turned on the last HOTK.

Lying and telling Littlefinger, Pycelle and Varys all different stories about what he intends to do with the heirs? Yes, obviously this was necessary to find Cersei's worm, but Tyrion should've been clever enough to trust none of them(especially Littlefinger, since Tyrion already knows from Cat about how Littlefinger lied about the dagger) and this outright lying and manipulation, if got out to the people, clearly would've been a disaster.

He doesn't trust any of them, but he needs to know which one is Cersei's pet. LF and Varys will give her info, but when it serves them. Tyrion still needed LF and Varys for the services they provide. A Maester is a dime a dozen.

And what was all that about abducting Tommen? It's been a while since I read the second book, but it seemed to me that the Queen / mother of Tommen has a general... you know, authority over where her son goes. Tyrion sending Bronn and the city watch to abduct Tommen made me want to rage. (at least it proved to us how cowardly Boros is, and we got Balon Swann in the kingsguard as a result, right? My memory could be off)

He didn't abduct Tommen so he could harm him. He did keep him safe.(aside from the threats...who know if he would have followed through on those.)

Also, doesn't that Alayaya or whatever her name is, whore end up getting publicly beaten and whipped through the streets? Just another part of the WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING TYRION, JUST MASTURBATE IF YOU'RE SO HORNY.

No she doesn't. They do whip her some, but she's not paraded through the streets.

Finally, while I understand the necessity of destroying all the buildings and such outside of King's Landing, Tyrion really should've warned the people that they would be doing this... BEFORE the day of. If I was a shopowner, i'd be mighty pissed too. This is just good strategic planning being mixed with terribad public relations.

Yeah. Agreed.

Also, Tyrion was a total douchebag to all the smiths when he was ordering them to make the chain.

He was, but the city's defense should take precedence.

[1234567]

I miss Queen Cersei I posts. Some were sheer genius. A real shame she was banned.

Just to add, I don't have the books on hand. Wasn't it initially Tyrion's brilliant idea to stop repaying the Iron Bank for the time being.

[A Dance With Daario]

what happened to queen cercei I anyway ?

ETA: asking a mod

[Lady Sansa Stark]

what happened to queen cercei I anyway ?

She got banned. Maybe she lashed out to someone. She was quite passionate. :)

[The Mountain That Posts]

Even with Pycelle, the gold cloaks and the smiths though - it still ultimately reflects VERY poorly on Tyrion. And besides, the gold cloaks were just following orders, so that may have had some small(albeit unexplored) hand in the gold cloaks throwing down their spears during the battle of the blackwater.

And I believe Tyrion temporarily suspended paying back the Iron Bank, but with the intention of starting up again the second Stannis wasn't at their doorstep. Wheras I think Cersei was just like "we're not paying you back until the war is completely over."

[JonisnoGarySnow]

I miss Queen Cersei I posts. Some were sheer genius. A real shame she was banned.

Just to add, I don't have the books on hand. Wasn't it initially Tyrion's brilliant idea to stop repaying the Iron Bank for the time being.

No, that was all Cersei.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I miss Queen Cersei I posts. Some were sheer genius. A real shame she was banned.

Just to add, I don't have the books on hand. Wasn't it initially Tyrion's brilliant idea to stop repaying the Iron Bank for the time being.

Nope, believe that that was Cersei and the rest of the Small Council, minus Pycelle who finally said a smart thing. :)

[A Dance With Daario]

Tyrion is very overrated by a lot of people ... i think im one of them, he is possibly one the the best "villians" in the show, because he makes people agree with him

[Kittykatknits]

I miss QC1.

And the points about Joffrey are spot-on. Let's not forget he made arrangements to send Myrcella off to Dorne without telling Cersei either. He also threatened the life of Tommen as well. No wonder he looked guilty as all get out. Between that and hitting and kicking the king in public., I'd think he was guilty.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I miss QC1.

And the points about Joffrey are spot-on. Let's not forget he made arrangements to send Myrcella off to Dorne without telling Cersei either. He also threatened the life of Tommen as well. No wonder he looked guilty as all get out. Between that and hitting and kicking the king in public., I'd think he was guilty.

But then again, Myrcella would a lot safer in Dorne than in King's Landing. The Dornish people would never hurt Myrcella, with the dark exception of the greatest douchebag. And he never meant to hurt Tommen. But still, yeah, he handled those things quite poor. Had he reasoned with Cersei, I think he could convince her Myrcella was much safer in Dorne, and that the marriage alliance would bring some advantages.

[1234567]

Tyrion ACOK

The Sellsword grew more serious. "There's a moneylender from Braavos, holding fancy papers and the like, requests to see the King about payment on some loan."

"As if Joff could count past twenty. Send the man to Littlefinger, he'll find a way to put him off, Next?"

This sounds like a reference to the Iron Bank.

[Kittykatknits]

But then again, Myrcella would a lot safer in Dorne than in King's Landing. The Dornish people would never hurt Myrcella, with the dark exception of the greatest douchebag. And he never meant to hurt Tommen. But still, yeah, he handled those things quite poor. Had he reasoned with Cersei, I think he could convince her Myrcella was much safer in Dorne, and that the marriage alliance would bring some advantages.

I get the logic, but he did the whole thing behind her mother's back. It gave her another reason not to trust him. Between that and hitting Joffrey in public and threatening Tommen in such a short span of time, he really looked as if he had an agenda.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Tyrion ACOK

This sounds like a reference to the Iron Bank.

But Cersei explicitly states in AFFC that the Iron Bank has to wait. In open court. i mean, Tyrion was about right when he thought there were more pressing things, like, I don't know, Stannis coming down to King's Landing. In general however, putting off the Iron Bank like that ain't the smartest move..

[A Dance With Daario]

unfortunatly, in ACOK, the only thing he was realy thinking about is his co...

[Lady Sansa Stark]

unfortunatly, in ACOK, the only thing he was realy thinking about is his co...

Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally? Tyrion? You wouldn't say.

[Kittykatknits]

But Cersei explicitly states in AFFC that the Iron Bank has to wait. In open court. i mean, Tyrion was about right when he thought there were more pressing things, like, I don't know, Stannis coming down to King's Landing. In general however, putting off the Iron Bank like that ain't the smartest move..

I wonder how it would look to the iron bank though? From that quote, Tyrion did have LF put them off so can we assume then that payments stopped for awhile before being restarted. So, Cersei does it again and to the IB, it looks like a pattern of only paying when they want too.

Might offer another explanation why the IB went to Stannis.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I wonder how it would look to the iron bank though? From that quote, Tyrion did have LF put them off so can we assume then that payments stopped for awhile before being restarted. So, Cersei does it again and to the IB, it looks like a pattern of only paying when they want too.

Might offer another explanation why the IB went to Stannis.

Well, the Iron Bank is known for supporting other contenders for a throne when the current King doesn't realize it's payback time.. I think the plan for supporting Stannis indeed was hatched before Cersei denied them payments in open court.