Coldhands is The Night's King

[Cold Hands Luke]

Um, if Coldhands is indeed Benjen Stark (which I believe under the current info we have) then he most certainly would know Bran's full name is Brandon :D

I'm not saying Coldhands is Benjen. He is the Night's King, Brandon Stark.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Isn't stannis the night king?

[Cold Hands Luke]

Isn't stannis the night king?

Um, not unless Stannis is hundreds of years old. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King

[Prince of the North]

I'm not saying Coldhands is Benjen. He is the Night's King, Brandon Stark.

Right, but you asked this:

And how would he even know his full name is Brandon? Again no one ever calls him that.

To which I replied that if he actually is Benjen then it's pretty easy to see how he would know Bran's full name is Brandon. Did you just come up with another reason that could point to Coldhands not being the Night's King? ;)

[Cold Hands Luke]

Right, but you asked this:

To which I replied that if he actually is Benjen then it's pretty easy to see how he would know Bran's full name is Brandon. Did you just come up with another reason that could point to Coldhands not being the Night's King? ;)

No, I am saying he said to Bran, "I am your monster, Brandon Stark." Introducing himself. Like if my name is Chris Smith and you are my boss i just meet and I say,"I am your worker, Chris Smith."

[Ser Luke.]

Completely on board with this theory.

[Prince of the North]

No, I am saying he said to Bran, "I am your monster, Brandon Stark." Introducing himself. Like if my name is Chris Smith and you are my boss i just meet and I say,"I am your worker, Chris Smith."

Heh, ok, one more time. You are using the idea that Coldhands supposedly couldn't know Bran's full name as support for your theory that he's the Night's King and that he's actually stating his own name. I'm merely offering an equally plausible alternative that the reason Coldhands knows Bran's full name is because he's his uncle and he's calling Bran by his full name.

Besides, the idea that people couldn't surmise that Bran's full name is Brandon "because no one calls him that" is pretty thin. How many Toms are not actually named Thomas, how many Mikes are not actually named Michael, how many Daves are not actually named David? The list goes on and on. So, no, no matter who Coldhands is it would not be difficult or unbelievable for him to think that Bran's full name may be Brandon.

[Cold Hands Luke]

Heh, ok, one more time. You are using the idea that Coldhands supposedly couldn't know Bran's full name as support for your theory that he's the Night's King and that he's actually stating his own name. I'm merely offering an equally plausible alternative that the reason Coldhands knows Bran's full name is because he's his uncle and he's calling Bran by his full name.

Besides, the idea that people couldn't surmise that Bran's full name is Brandon "because no one calls him that" is pretty thin. How many Toms are not actually named Thomas, how many Mikes are not actually named Michael, how many Daves are not actually named David? The list goes on and on. So, no, no matter who Coldhands is it would not be difficult or unbelievable for him to think that Bran's full name may be Brandon.

Right on, everyone thinks Coldhands is Benjen at first, it's obvious which is exactly why I doubted it. There is one damning piece of evidence that Benjen supporters ignore. He has been dead a long time, it is known. So long that he forgot or never remembered noticing his hands are black. Benjen has not gone missing that long, a couple years.

[winteristheseason]

How come the nights king was able to bring one of the Others south of the wall. I thought that the magic woven into the wall prevented them from entering the south.

[Prince of the North]

Right on, everyone thinks Coldhands is Benjen at first, it's obvious which is exactly why I doubted it. There is one damning piece of evidence that Benjen supporters ignore. He has been dead a long time, it is known. So long that he forgot or never remembered noticing his hands are black. Benjen has not gone missing that long, a couple years.

Nah, it's not "obvious" at all. Do you have a quote supporting your assertion that Coldhands "forgot or never remembered that his hands are black"? I want to see if that's actually how it was described or is it more a case that he's simply gotten used to his current state and doesn't really think about it any more?

You also say Coldhands has been dead "a long time" and that "it is known" (love that phrase, by the way :) ). How long is a long time?

[Cold Hands Luke]

I dont have my copy of ADwD as I have lent it out to a friend so I cannot look up the quote. IIRC it is in the second Bran chapter. Leaf, the CotF, is 200 years old. She says of Coldhands to Bran, "They killed him long ago." Two years would not be long ago to someone who has lived 200. However, the age of heroes would be.

Nah, it's not "obvious" at all. Do you have a quote supporting your assertion that Coldhands "forgot or never remembered that his hands are black"? I want to see if that's actually how it was described or is it more a case that he's simply gotten used to his current state and doesn't really think about it any more?

You also say Coldhands has been dead "a long time" and that "it is known" (love that phrase, by the way :) ). How long is a long time?

[Lord Ravenstark]

How come the nights king was able to bring one of the Others south of the wall. I thought that the magic woven into the wall prevented them from entering the south.

There are some theories.

1- They can't pass by themselves, but can pass with help. Remember the Wights in the first book.

2- There are no magic, they just never wanted to pass and the Wall works like a normal Wall: to delay and give advantage.

3- Men can use magic. As we know he could only some magic to let the she enter.

[Stannis Lives]

Who was the first Lord Commander of the NW? I'm surprised it is rarely discussed in the series and rarely speculated on. Obviously that individual played a major role, probably as the first person to drive back the others (AA?) and most likely as the founder of the NW. Is it possible Coldhands is that first LC? I find it bizarre that GRRM never gets into it.

[Lord Ravenstark]

Who was the first Lord Commander of the NW? I'm surprised it is rarely discussed in the series and rarely speculated on. Obviously that individual played a major role, probably as the first person to drive back the others (AA?) and most likely as the founder of the NW. Is it possible Coldhands is that first LC? I find it bizarre that GRRM never gets into it.

Probably was the last hero.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Probably was the last hero.

Not necessarily. He coulda been killed during the Battle for the Dawn with Bran the Builder appointing the first LC.

[Prince of the North]

I dont have my copy of ADwD as I have lent it out to a friend so I cannot look up the quote. IIRC it is in the second Bran chapter. Leaf, the CotF, is 200 years old. She says of Coldhands to Bran, "They killed him long ago." Two years would not be long ago to someone who has lived 200. However, the age of heroes would be.

Yes, this is what I believed at first, too. My first thought upon reading it was that Leaf's "long ago" must mean longer than a couple of years due to her long life. Then I realized that's just as much of an assumption as anything else. Tell me, why must Leaf's reference to time in this case be tied to the length of her life?

[Lord Ravenstark]

Not necessarily. He coulda been killed during the Battle for the Dawn with Bran the Builder appointing the first LC.

Maybe when the nw was created it was directly ruled by Winterfell, with Bran the Builder as the first LC and the Maesters being right: Another Brandon had given the gift.

Maybe Coldhands is Bran the Builder... at least would not be suprised if Bran (I) used his knowledge of magic to protect the Wall forever... turning himself in a free will Wight.

Bran (I) and Bran (II). The Builder and the Broken.

[Cold Hands Luke]

Yes, this is what I believed at first, too. My first thought upon reading it was that Leaf's "long ago" must mean longer than a couple of years due to her long life. Then I realized that's just as much of an assumption as anything else. Tell me, why must Leaf's reference to time in this case be tied to the length of her life?

Well people's perception of time is directly correlated to their age. That's why 2 years to a kid is a long time and to an adult isnt. There is textual evidence or clues that Coldhands is the NK or maybe their child. And no evidence or clues it is Ben except the fact he used to be a member of the NW. I believe old Ben is alive and well and is the hooded man at winterfell.

[Prince of the North]

Well people's perception of time is directly correlated to their age. That's why 2 years to a kid is a long time and to an adult isnt. There is textual evidence or clues that Coldhands is the NK or maybe their child. And no evidence or clues it is Ben except the fact he used to be a member of the NW. I believe old Ben is alive and well and is the hooded man at winterfell.

Do you have some proof that "people's perception of time is always directly related to their age"? I contend that it's just as likely that a person could alter their reference to a length of time (because that's actually what we're talking about here - a reference, not just a perception) to make it more easily relatable to their audience as it is likely that a "person's perception of time is always related to their age". Just as one example, I sometimes refer to a couple of years as a "long time" when I'm talking to my kids because, as you say above, a couple of years is a long time to them.

Also, what is the textual evidence or clues that Coldhands is the Night's King or his child? And as for your belief that Benjen is the Hooded Man, I believe the Hooded Man is none other than Theon himself. Now, which of us is right? ;)

[Cold Hands Luke]

Do you have some proof that "people's perception of time is always directly related to their age"? I contend that it's just as likely that a person could alter their reference to a length of time (because that's actually what we're talking about here - a reference, not just a perception) to make it more easily relatable to their audience as it is likely that a "person's perception of time is always related to their age". Just as one example, I sometimes refer to a couple of years as a "long time" when I'm talking to my kids because, as you say above, a couple of years is a long time to them.

Also, what is the textual evidence or clues that Coldhands is the Night's King or his child? And as for your belief that Benjen is the Hooded Man, I believe the Hooded Man is none other than Theon himself. Now, which of us is right? ;)

I'm saying that there is textual evidence to contradict him being Ben. I have already stated the clues. I am not looking up some study about time/age perception. Although I am sure it has been done, it's common sense. One more thing not mentioned is the NK was said to lose his soul upon mating with an other. Creatures that lose their soul in stories always become living dead things such as vampires. This is all interpretation opinion and could go on forever. So, you are saying that Theon had an encounter with himself?