From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XVII

[brashcandy]

It seems most people who object to Dany and Sansa being friends is that it would be "cliche" same as any romance would be "cliche". (Obviously these people normally only read avant garde modernist literature).

Oh, most assuredly. And of course the many bromances we have in the books can never be considered cliched.

[Lady Green]

I think for Sansa and Dany to be BFFs they need to meet on equal terms politically, otherwise it wouldn't really work.

[Raksha the Demon]

I've never understood this view that Dany will want to wipe out House Stark and any remaining remnants of the usurper's dogs. Let us not forget that the very Tyrion is the brother of the man who killed her father and a principal member of the family who presented the bodies of her niece and nephew to Robert Baratheon. If Dany if so irrational to pursue justice against Ned's children, why wouldn't she just chop Tyrion's head off at first chance? Further, recall that this is someone who refused to even exact punishment on the hostages she took in Meereen.

And if we've all noted Sansa's skills in diplomacy - even the mighty Tyrion himself - and her increasing grasp of the game, I don't see why it is so far-fetched to entertain the idea of her forging an alliance with Daenerys. The "BFF" theory is simply a pleasant offshoot of this political possibility, but god forbid two women in power should actually get along! Even the foreshadowing - SR's love of the story of the winged knight, and Sansa's associations with flying, might point to a future dragon connection. There's also theories on the Vale's sky cells serving as dragon nests etc. Again, we're all speculating here, and I'm open to valid points which question this theory, but so far what I've seen hasn't amount to such.

I don't think Dany would necessarily try to kill Ned Stark's young children for his sins; but I doubt that she would necessarily exert herself to help Sansa, Arya or Rickon or even Jon without a good reason. I think that Dany plans to bring down the Houses of Stark and Baratheon if she comes to power, end their power, probably punishing any members of those houses who participated in the rebellion against her father; i.e. Stannis. If the heirs of Houses Stark and Baratheon (and Arryn) bend the knee to Dany before she takes power, or help her in her acquisition of the Iron Throne, she may be more inclined to reinstate them, though.

It's not that two women in power can't get along; it's that Dany has a powerful and at times irrational hatred of the Starks and Baratheons and Lannisters who destroyed her family's power and killed her father and brother and her brother's wife and children. She won't even hear the testimony of Ser Barristan, who was a witness to much of her father's reign and who knew the "Usurper" and his "dogs". Dany can't distinguish between Robert Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, or Ned Stark in terms of their motivations and justifications and actions before and after the rebellion. I don't see her going out of her way to befriend Ned Stark's children or even leaving them a home to reclaim.

The situation could change if Dany needed something from Sansa - perhaps her allegiance to claim the allegiance of House Tully/Riverrun/the Riverlands, especially if Edmure is still a captive and Roslin and her child dead? Sansa, who so resembles Catelyn Tully, her mother, could be influential in rousing the Riverlands to the aid of the returned Dragon Queen...

I just can't see Dany befriending Sansa out of the goodness of her heart. Dany is not a totally evil woman, but she has fanatic tendencies; understandable given her being raised mostly by Viserys, and I don't think she would abandon her hatred of the Starks just because Sansa would make an excellent advisor and friend.

[brashcandy]

I just can't see Dany befriending Sansa out of the goodness of her heart. Dany is not a totally evil woman, but she has fanatic tendencies; understandable given her being raised mostly by Viserys, and I don't think she would abandon her hatred of the Starks just because Sansa would make an excellent advisor and friend.

Who said anything about the goodness of her heart? I think my post was clear that I expected it to be a political alliance or something of that nature first and foremost, and then we might see a friendship develop, or there might be the possibility that a friendship could develop. Dany would have a lot bigger fish to fry than considering pursuing justice against the children of a man who is long dead, and whom she would have heard by then was not the monster she imagined. And if it's so hard to imagine that she would put aside aside her hatred of the Starks for Sansa, why do so many countless readers imagine that she'd have no problem taking on Tyrion Lannister for the very same advisory services?

[bgona]

And while we're discussing Sweetrobin, why not make it a full focus on men in the Vale? The main categories for me would be:

Predatory pricks pissants:

Littlefinger

Lyn Corbray

Harry the Heir?

Mad Mouse

Potential protectors

The Blackfish (if he shows up)

Bronze Yohn

Harry the Heir?

Lothor Brune?

Possible players

Nestor Royce

Mychel Redfort

Sweetrobin

Aegon??

I think the Blackfish would make an interesting study, considering his own rejection of a conventional life.

Feel free to reorganize or add to the list.

Predatory pricks pissants:

Littlefinger

Lyn Corbray

Harry the Heir?

Mad Mouse

Potential protectors

The Blackfish (if he shows up)

Bronze Yohn

Harry the Heir?

Lothor Brune?

Possible players

Nestor Royce

Mychel Redfort

Sweetrobin

Aegon??

Others?

Symond Templeton

Benedar Belmore

Lyonel Corbray

Gilwood Hunter

Harlan Hunter

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Who said anything about the goodness of her heart? 1 I think my post was clear that I expected it to be a political alliance or something of that nature first and foremost, and then we might see a friendship develop, or 2 there might be the possibility that a friendship could develop. Dany would have a lot bigger fish to fry than considering pursuing justice against the children of a man who is long dead, and 3 whom she would have heard by then was not the monster she imagined. And if it's so hard to imagine that she would put aside aside her hatred of the Starks for Sansa, 4 why do so many countless readers imagine that she'd have no problem taking on Tyrion Lannister for the very same advisory services?

1. I really don't see the point of an alliance on either side at the moment. Don't get me wrong. It could happen (especially if Jon/Dany happens). But what does the other have to gain at the moment? The North is in shambles so it's not the most attractive ally for Dany. Stannis is the one helping restore *House Stark through FArya and Rickon. So, if the North swears fealty to the Iron Throne, Stannis would make the most sense.

The "burn the weirwoods" is a problem, but I have a feeling that the Fire Church declaring Dany AA is going to have huge ramifications. I do not want to say what because I can see all sorts of scenarios (both Stannis and Dany would have reason then to reject or support it or even something crazy like Stannis accepting Dany as queen and supporting her).

But a lot of things are up in the air. So, it's hard to tell if a political alliance would make sense.

The one thing Sansa might have that Dany would want is the Vale (assuming she controls it or plays a large influence by time Dany gets to Westeros). But I don't see much of a reason for Sansa to want an alliance with Dany (other than not being burned to death by dragons). Don't get me wrong. There could be. I just haven't really thought about it. If anyone can, I would honestly like to hear.

2. If Dany doesn't go full villain, I can easily see a friendship between the two. It would be good for both of them, especially Dany who has never had a friend.

3. The problem is that Dany has already shown that she doesn't want to learn. It is simply something that cannot be answered at this time. Dany had some big revelations at the end of DWD. Whether these will shape her for the good or the bad remains to be seen.

4. To be honest, I don't see her welcoming Tyrion with open arms. I wouldn't be surprised if her first instinct is to arrest him and order his execution (which he will probably find some way out of). If she does accept him, it's could be because he killed Tywin and **Joffery.

*Of course, purely for political reasons. Not trying to claim Stannis loves the Starks and is doing everything out of the goodness of his heart.

**We know different, but everyone thinks it, and Tyrion claims it now.

[Fire Eater]

There will be parallels from both Aegon's Conquest and the Dance of Dragons when Dany arrives. Dany with three dragons, will be facing the combined forces of Highgarden and Casterly Rock like Aegon I did for example.

There is going to be a Dance with Dragons. If we follow the parallel of the Dance of Dragons, Aegon will have the Hightowers, and Dany will have the Vale. If we follow the Aegon's conquest-era Vale parallel, the reigning Arryn was the boy, Ronnel and the Vale was ruled by his mother, Shara, a known beauty, and Dany will find the Vale ruled by little lord Robert Arryn and and his regent, the beautiful Sansa. Robert, like his forebear Ronnel, may even finally fly with Dany on her dragons, as he likes to think of himself as the Winged Knight who could fly. Sansa could ally with Dany with the condition being her annulment of her marriage to Tyrion and restoration of her family's lands and titles, and Ice.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

There will be parallels from both Aegon's Conquest and the Dance of Dragons when Dany arrives. Dany with three dragons, will be facing the combined forces of Highgarden and Casterly Rock like Aegon I did for example.

There is going to be a Dance with Dragons. If we follow the parallel of the Dance of Dragons, Aegon will have the Hightowers, and Dany will have the Vale. If we follow the Aegon's conquest-era Vale parallel, the reigning Arryn was the boy, Ronnel and the Vale was ruled by his mother, Shara, a known beauty, and Dany will find the Vale ruled by little lord Robert Arryn and and his regent, the beautiful Sansa. Robert, like his forebear Ronnel, may even finally fly with Dany on her dragons, as he likes to think of himself as the Winged Knight who could fly. Sansa could ally with Dany with the condition being her annulment of her marriage to Tyrion and restoration of her family's lands and titles, and Ice.

But that's pretty much the minimal that any non-Lannister Throne could offer. So, I still see a reason Sansa should support Dany over Aegon or Stannis (especially since Stannis is already trying to secure the North).

You bring up interesting parallels that might point towards something, but honestly, I don't think Aegon will be involved. I think Victorian will steal a dragon or two with the horn and skedaddle. Of course, if I recall right, the ironborn are setting their sights on Oldtown (near that area), so that really doesn't affect your theory too much. Personally, I'm not sure of your theory. While I'm sure it will be similar to the first Dance of Dragons, I suspect it will not be that similair. But that's just personal opinion.

[brashcandy]

@Lord Bronn

The political situation in the Vale is really the great unknown. Right now we know that Littlefinger is claiming he'll use the Vale army to retake the North on the condition that SR dies and Sansa is married to Harry. While we suspect LF has a way of getting Sansa's marriage to Tyrion annulled, we know for sure that Sansa does not want a marriage arrangement tied to her claim, and she wouldn't be willing to regain Winterfell over her dead cousin's body even if she was willing to accept such an agreement. There's also the fact that Sansa's old god's affiliations appear to be on the increase and we might see her soon warging or undergoing some kind of transformative experience. Some breach has to happen in the relationship between Sansa and LF. The way I see it is that Sansa won't be getting involved in the Northern struggle anytime soon, and that her efforts will be concentrated in and around the Vale, and perhaps the Riverlands. Stannis views her as Lady Lannister, and besides I don't think he has long for this world, so no joining up there. Based on Sansa's noted strengths, I imagine her being able to function in an advisory position and as a kind of mediator for Dany with the Vale lords and other factions. If Jon comes South for example, she might be the one to forge some treaty between him and Dany and make headway in the battle against the Others. That's if she herself doesn't have a very important primary role as a Queen of Winter, thereby contributing to the whole song of ice and fire, rather than strictly on the game playing arena. Like I said, lots of unknowns, lots of things to resolve. It's one of the reasons why I don't see Martin wrapping this thing up in two books.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I actually agree with a lot of your post. I'm going to shut up and apologize since I was derailing the Thread and turning into a Dany/Stannis thing.

It's just that you debate so much in other Threads, it becomes automatic.

Again, sorry. Let's get back on topic. :)

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

@Lord Bronn

The political situation in the Vale is really the great unknown. Right now we know that Littlefinger is claiming he'll use the Vale army to retake the North on the condition that SR dies and Sansa is married to Harry. While we suspect LF has a way of getting Sansa's marriage to Tyrion annulled, we know for sure that Sansa does not want a marriage arrangement tied to her claim, and she wouldn't be willing to regain Winterfell over her dead cousin's body even if she was willing to accept such an agreement. There's also the fact that Sansa's old god's affiliations appear to be on the increase and we might see her soon warging or undergoing some kind of transformative experience. Some breach has to happen in the relationship between Sansa and LF. The way I see it is that Sansa won't be getting involved in the Northern struggle anytime soon, and that her efforts will be concentrated in and around the Vale, and perhaps the Riverlands. Stannis views her as Lady Lannister, and besides I don't think he has long for this world, so no joining up there. Based on Sansa's noted strengths, I imagine her being able to function in an advisory position and as a kind of mediator for Dany with the Vale lords and other factions. If Jon comes South for example, she might be the one to forge some treaty between him and Dany and make headway in the battle against the Others. That's if she herself doesn't have a very important primary role as a Queen of Winter, thereby contributing to the whole song of ice and fire, rather than strictly on the game playing arena. Like I said, lots of unknowns, lots of things to resolve. It's one of the reasons why I don't see Martin wrapping this thing up in two books.

IAWTC. And expanding on some of the comments Brash made:

- LF says he is going to marry Sansa to Harry the Heir - a handsome, gallant knight! - and they'll be this golden couple who will rally all the Vale to their banner and take back Winterfell! Once again, I call BS. My belief is that LF intends to do no such thing and is trying to reel Sansa in with what he thinks she wants to hear (Harry is handsome and gallant, taking back Winterfell will be easy and fun). I note that this Sansa chappie ended on a cliffhanger, we did not get to see her response, AND we did not hear from Sansa all the way through ADWD. I fervently hope that the next Sansa chapter we read will have her realizing that LF is full of lies and Arbor gold and that is what he is trying to sell her.

- By this time, Sansa is so sick to death of her claim that I can see her wanting SR alive and well not just out of compassion and family feeling, but to give Littlefinger the middle finger and keep from being an even bigger piece of meat at the marriage market.

- She hates being Lady Lannister, but right now, her marriage with Tyrion is protecting her. She can't marry until that is annulled somehow. I don't doubt that it will be, but right now she's got the excuse of "I already am married" to fob off various suitors.

- Stannis looks to be in a pretty bad way - last time we saw him, his army was cannibalizing one another - and when Davos comes back with Rickon in tow, it will be interesting to see how things play out. I bet that Mel is twigging to who the real Azor Ahai is - not Stannis, but most likely Jon Snow - and Stannis won't have her around anymore, and she was the source of his real power.

- As I and others have noted, Sansa will make a good advisor. She has all the necessary qualities (except maybe a penis, but I don't know how sexist the post-apocalyptic Westeros will be).

- A big deal is made of the fact that the Vale has plentiful food stores and an untouched army. I don't think this is by accident.

- I agree that the storyline will probably take more than two books to wrap up, but then again, IIRC the story was intended as a trilogy. :) Stories grow. In any event, I'd much rather have eight books, or however many it takes, than for GRRM to rush and skip storylines to tie up the plot faster.

[peash]

I think for Sansa and Dany to be BFFs they need to meet on equal terms politically, otherwise it wouldn't really work.

My personal theory is that Dany's posse rocks up to WF, Tyrion attempts to take over as Lord Protector and Sansa throws him in the dungeons, Dany tries to threaten Sansa with Dragonfire and is calmly reminded that they are all in the middle of the north in the middle of winter and that any stark burning will result in Dany and co freezing and starving to death. The two ladies having established that they are on equal ground, they can then proceed to become friends.

I agree about the Arienne/Cersei/Sansa parallels. Arienne is less skilled in using he wits than Sansa, but on the other hand she is better at using her whiles. Up until now, Arienne's been a piece, ultimately being skilled in using your whiles is a better skill for someone who isn't the main person in the a faction, but her interactions with Jon Connington and F/Aegon could lead to her becoming more of a player, in much the same way as Sansa is making the transition from piece to player.

[1234567]

Mychel Redfort and Ysilla Royce - Will they meet Sansa and if so will their relationship have an impact on her views concerning marriage?

Michyel Redfort and Mya's relationship was mentioned all the way back in AGOT. We now know he has married Ysilla and that Randa and Mya had considered him gallant until he married someone else. We also know that he may have been pressured into it

Lord Horton gave him no choice in the matter, I am sure, but it was a cruel thing to do to Mya.

Edit: As it has been a bit of a Chechov's gun in that respect (I can't see it having been mentioned in two books now, without it having some relevance).

So will we get to see Mychel and Ysilla at anypoint? I suspect we might and if we do, how will they interact with each other? If Mychel is still in love with Mya and just being dutiful or worse, neglectful or unpleasant to his wife, this may impact Sansa's already jaded view of marriage even more negatively.

Also if Mychel is still in love and very obviously so, with Mya, then I doubt Ysilla (and possibly the other ladies of the Vale) will be terribly nice to Sansa. Mya is a threat to Ysilla (not that Mya would act on any thing, but that she draws Mychel's attention) and seeing another bastard girl being raised beyond her station, may involve some general bitchyness. So going back to Sansa. I am not sure she is going to find much companionship with the Ladies of the Vale (especially given her "father's" low origins. Which again suggests that the alliances she will form, will be with Ser Lothor and Mya.

Also a bastard girl marrying Harry the Heir, may been seen as an afront.

Even in the recent Arienne chapter we see that Daemon Sand is immediately disregarded as a suitor because of his bastard status and Arienne thinks he should know better, and Arienne tells Elia that she is no Lady (which although likely refers to her behaviour, is also a reference to the fact that she actually is not a Lady proper and that like Alyane, it is an honourary title. We know how much of an issue Jon was to Cat and I don't think that was just her. Lord Hornwood's illegitimate son was raised in a different house and the illegitimate daughter of the Lord whose Castle was captured by the Greyjoys, was a maid.

This makes me suspect that Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are highly unusual in their exhalted positions. Although even there, it is of note that none of them are married. When Ellaria was in KL, there was also a fuss about her status as a bastard and her being sat in the presense of the other ladies of Court. While Sansa gets a lot of stick for highlighting that Jon is a bastard, it seems that more and more, we are getting reinforced ideas that bastards are not generally accepted and even if they are, then they do not marry far beyond the bottom rung of nobility. Therefore Alyane's betrothal is highly unusual. This must surely have social ramifications for her in the Vale.

Also on another note, do you think Alyane will be partial to Vale gossip regarding Sansa Stark? It would seem a likely subject to be raised at some point.

Sorry Sidenote:

- Stannis looks to be in a pretty bad way - last time we saw him, his army was cannibalizing one another -

I think Stannis is about to pull off a bloodier version of Alexander Nevsky. There were too many similarities to where his army is and

some of his comments regarding his army being mainly on foot in the Theon Sample Chapter.

Oh and if you look at Lake Peipus where the Battle of the Ice was fought, the way the land indents makes it look like there is a strip of land between two lakes. Not certain, but I would bet that the Freys shall be iced. Which provides the Ice and Fire combining motif with Stannis.

EDIT:

It seems most people who object to Dany and Sansa being friends is that it would be "cliche" same as any romance would be "cliche". (Obviously these people normally only read avant garde modernist literature).

Personally I could never get to grips with those sorts of books and stream of consciousness always comes across to me as pretentious twaddle.

Also I hate to say it but is not life itself cliche? After all, almost everyone wants to fall in love, get married, have friends etc. Well at least I presume that's a more popular alternative to walking around Dublin, avoiding pubs....which is madness in itself.

[Fire Eater]

@Rapsie

In that case I hope Mychel and Mya meet each other again, because they need some closure. I wonder how Ysilla would behave towards Alayne and Mya Stone. She may be how Sansa would have turned out had it not been for the events in the series, and Ysilla may be a little haughty and hold some disdain for the girls, especially Mya, some jealousy there. Her name means "little she-bear".

[brashcandy]

Again, sorry. Let's get back on topic. :)

You are one of the few allowed to derail the PtP at times ;) and you made very relevant points, so no worries.

So will we get to see Mychel and Ysilla at anypoint? I suspect we might and if we do, how will they interact with each other? If Mychel is still in love with Mya and just being dutiful or worse, neglectful or unpleasant to his wife, this may impact Sansa's already jaded view of marriage even more negatively.

Also if Mychel is still in love and very obviously so, with Mya, then I doubt Ysilla (and possibly the other ladies of the Vale) will be terribly nice to Sansa. Mya is a threat to Ysilla (not that Mya would act on any thing, but that she draws Mychel's attention) and seeing another bastard girl being raised beyond her station, may involve some general bitchyness. So going back to Sansa. I am not sure she is going to find much companionship with the Ladies of the Vale (especially given her "father's" low origins. Which again suggests that the alliances she will form, will be with Ser Lothor and Mya.

Interesting thoughts Rapsie. I do admit to being very curious about Mychel Redfort and how his marriage with Ysilla is going. I suppose Lord Nestor's feast for SR might introduce us to all the various Vale personalities, and how they interact with one another. I agree that Sansa is unlikely to find herself embraced with open arms in whatever clique there is at the Gates of the Moon; Randa Royce may prove to be a friend, but her journey up to meet with Sansa seems to have been more about the curiosity factor and trying to get Sansa to put in a good word for her with Littlefinger. So Sansa is both "in" and "out". Betrothed to HtH, but with a bastard name that won't endear her to the other girls who may have pinned their hopes on Harry.

I don't know how much of an impact the state of the Redfort marriage will have on her views. She seemed to accept the reality that Mya could not marry Mychel (just noticed the similar "My" names), and was quick to match Mya and Lothor. However, to your point, if she is faced with a very miserable Mychel Redfort, who clearly still pines over Mya, it could cause her to ponder some more. It should be noted that Sansa understands how arranged marriages work in Westeros, but her terrible experiences in KL and with others who have tried to use her as a marriage pawn with no concern to her rights or wishes is what she truly resents.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Why do people think Dany is landing in the vale?

About Sansa/Dany, i wonder how much Sansa and even Arya will get involved with the northern politics and Jon. If jon learns r + l and tells Sansa it could be that Sansa and Dany might be "friends," but Sansa is playing the game to get Jon on the throne probably with Dany. Jon would be the silent knife at Dany's back that Littlefinger spoke of. She might also use songs to get Dany/Tyrion to come up with R + L based on Littlefinger's comments on how singers can be just as useful as swords (i think it was swords)

I kind of hope that the starks stay out of the dance until the end and actually end it

[brashcandy]

As much as I enjoy considering these questions, Ser Pollo Loco, I think we've reached the consensus that too much of the dynamics with Dany and how her arrival will play out is still up in the air. I think we're better off keeping our speculations fairly grounded in Sansa's story line, and analyses with credible textual basis.

[Lady Green]

Mychel Redfort and Ysilla Royce - Will they meet Sansa and if so will their relationship have an impact on her views concerning marriage?

Michyel Redfort and Mya's relationship was mentioned all the way back in AGOT. We now know he has married Ysilla and that Randa and Mya had considered him gallant until he married someone else. We also know that he may have been pressured into it

Edit: As it has been a bit of a Chechov's gun in that respect (I can't see it having been mentioned in two books now, without it having some relevance).

So will we get to see Mychel and Ysilla at anypoint? I suspect we might and if we do, how will they interact with each other? If Mychel is still in love with Mya and just being dutiful or worse, neglectful or unpleasant to his wife, this may impact Sansa's already jaded view of marriage even more negatively.

Also if Mychel is still in love and very obviously so, with Mya, then I doubt Ysilla (and possibly the other ladies of the Vale) will be terribly nice to Sansa. Mya is a threat to Ysilla (not that Mya would act on any thing, but that she draws Mychel's attention) and seeing another bastard girl being raised beyond her station, may involve some general bitchyness. So going back to Sansa. I am not sure she is going to find much companionship with the Ladies of the Vale (especially given her "father's" low origins. Which again suggests that the alliances she will form, will be with Ser Lothor and Mya.

Also a bastard girl marrying Harry the Heir, may been seen as an afront.

Even in the recent Arienne chapter we see that Daemon Sand is immediately disregarded as a suitor because of his bastard status and Arienne thinks he should know better, and Arienne tells Elia that she is no Lady (which although likely refers to her behaviour, is also a reference to the fact that she actually is not a Lady proper and that like Alyane, it is an honourary title. We know how much of an issue Jon was to Cat and I don't think that was just her. Lord Hornwood's illegitimate son was raised in a different house and the illegitimate daughter of the Lord whose Castle was captured by the Greyjoys, was a maid.

This makes me suspect that Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are highly unusual in their exhalted positions. Although even there, it is of note that none of them are married. When Ellaria was in KL, there was also a fuss about her status as a bastard and her being sat in the presense of the other ladies of Court. While Sansa gets a lot of stick for highlighting that Jon is a bastard, it seems that more and more, we are getting reinforced ideas that bastards are not generally accepted and even if they are, then they do not marry far beyond the bottom rung of nobility. Therefore Alyane's betrothal is highly unusual. This must surely have social ramifications for her in the Vale.

Also on another note, do you think Alyane will be partial to Vale gossip regarding Sansa Stark? It would seem a likely subject to be raised at some point.

What you have said definately goes along with the idea in my head that the Vale Lords at least have a suspision as to who Alayne/Sansa really is. Add to that the fact that everyone knows that Harry the Heir is the Heir to the Vale after Sweetrobin and it just seems strange that they would allow him to get married to a bastard girl, even if he likes the girl/she's very beautiful like Sansa is.

Also, though LF did come up with a backstory for Alayne that explains why noone knows about her, it would seem strange to others that someone as well informed as LF didn't know about her. And no offense to LF, but I'd be suspicious as to how he could create a daughter as beautiful as Sansa.

Actually I don't like LF, so the offence can stay.

[Lyanna Stark]

What you have said definately goes along with the idea in my head that the Vale Lords at least have a suspision as to who Alayne/Sansa really is. Add to that the fact that everyone knows that Harry the Heir is the Heir to the Vale after Sweetrobin and it just seems strange that they would allow him to get married to a bastard girl, even if he likes the girl/she's very beautiful like Sansa is.

We see in AFFC how Littlefinger manages through various ways to get the Lords Declarant on his side. The only one who isn't is Bronze Yohn Royce. Anya Waynwood is Harry the Heir's guardian, but Harry is not her own son. Littlefinger bought all the Waynwood debt, so basically he's paid Anya to accept Alayne Stone for Harry, and she, being broke, had little choice. After all, since it's not her own son, having a bastard wed into her real family is not something she needs to consider.

Also, though LF did come up with a backstory for Alayne that explains why noone knows about her, it would seem strange to others that someone as well informed as LF didn't know about her. And no offense to LF, but I'd be suspicious as to how he could create a daughter as beautiful as Sansa.

I think few people in-universe knows how well informed LF normally is. Tyrion and Varys would certainly question LF's story, but as for the rest? He's just an amiable fellow with no large estate, no army and a barely noble name: i.e. not a threat, nobody important. Also, as LF points out, it is rude to question a man about his natural children (i.e. bastards), so he is partly saved by being non-threatening, and partly by etiquette.

[Lady Green]

We see in AFFC how Littlefinger manages through various ways to get the Lords Declarant on his side. The only one who isn't is Bronze Yohn Royce. Anya Waynwood is Harry the Heir's guardian, but Harry is not her own son. Littlefinger bought all the Waynwood debt, so basically he's paid Anya to accept Alayne Stone for Harry, and she, being broke, had little choice. After all, since it's not her own son, having a bastard wed into her real family is not something she needs to consider.

I think few people in-universe knows how well informed LF normally is. Tyrion and Varys would certainly question LF's story, but as for the rest? He's just an amiable fellow with no large estate, no army and a barely noble name: i.e. not a threat, nobody important. Also, as LF points out, it is rude to question a man about his natural children (i.e. bastards), so he is partly saved by being non-threatening, and partly by etiquette.

Ahhh is that how he got Anya Waynwood to agree! I knew Harry was a ward, so presumably he doesn't have any other family? But that still doesn't quite explain why the other Lords Declarant are ok with their future Lady of the Eeire being a bastard, especially a bastard of a very low down noble (in their opinion).

I presumed that a fairly substancial number of people knew that LF was well informed, but if not then that makes much more sense!