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Theories you simply don't believe


mitch176

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He obviously still has a lot of explaining to do with regards to Aerys' seven and their motives. But I think there's enough hints alrealdy to suggest they (some of them) weren't as completely loyal to Aerys as we might think.

True, but they were loyal to their vows.

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He obviously still has a lot of explaining to do with regards to Aerys' seven and their motives. But I think there's enough hints alrealdy to suggest they (some of them) weren't as completely loyal to Aerys as we might think.

Right, but there is an issue of using the vow they swore (to protect the king) as justification for following the crown prince's orders to do something else.

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I don't believe that Bran ate Jojen paste. ("Hey Meera, where's Jojen gone?" "Remember that paste you ate in the last book Bran? I'm afraid that was his blood - didn't you hear me crying uncontrollably when the children of the forest started killing him?")

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Right, but there is an issue of using the vow they swore (to protect the king) as justification for following the crown prince's orders to do something else.

It all depends on their motives and how they interpreted those vows. If they were planning to depose Aerys for Rhaegar, then they clearly weren't living up to their vows as members of the KG. So in their minds, then, they would view Rhaegar as the rightful king, and consequently, take their orders from him.

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I don't believe Aegon is a Targ.

I don't believe that really matters in the end anyway, because nobody in Westeros is even remotely pure-blood Valyrian at this point, anyway.

I don't believe Syrio is anything other than a guy who got killed in book one. A man must not assume a man is one and the same because a man uses particular grammar.

I don't believe anyone is Rhaegar.

I don't believe that Howland Reed will pop out of the bushes for a cameo like Sean Connery in Kevin Costner's Robin Hood to give an R+L=J exposition speech.

I don't believe attempting to abolish deeply entrenched slavery in a pre-inustrial society is advisable from a pragmatic standpoint, although it is admirable from an ethical standpoint.

I don't believe Doran Martell is an incredible mastermind.

I don't believe the Hooded Man in Winterfell is Robbwind, aka the wolf-headed corpse of Robb Stark reanimated by the kiss of life.

I don't believe Theon's wiener exists anymore. There's a reason everyone thinks he smells like piss, even after he has been bathed and clothed anew.

I don't believe Varys is really doing anything for altruistic reasons, aka "for the realm".

I don't believe Marwyn is a Hightower, he spits sweet leaf/tobacco, in the book as well as in real life, this is a 95% predictor of a working class background.

I don't believe Moqorro is Marwyn in disguise.

I don't believe the series will end like a bad tattoo, with a Valkyrie in bikini armor flying in on a fire breathing dragon to save the day.

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It all depends on their motives and how they interpreted those vows. If they were planning to depose Aerys for Rhaegar, then they clearly weren't living up to their vows as members of the KG. So in their minds, then, they would view Rhaegar as the rightful king, and consequently, take their orders from him.

The idea that they were in any way disloyal to Aerys runs contrary to the ToJ dialogue. For instance:

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tower_of_Joy
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This is tough, I'll limit my comments to what happened in the "past" within the books

I do not believe Tywin fathered twins.

I do not believe Jojen paste.

I do not believe Varys has told a lie once in the story. (he simply witholds information)

I do not believe Sweetrobin is an Arryn

I do not believe san/san

I do not believe Syrio is dead

I do not believe the waif is Weasel

I do not believe the FM want Dany dead

I do not believe Varys does not know (he knows) where Arya and Sansa are.

I do not believe Syrio is Jaqen

I do not believe AA is the LCNW or that the watch itself is Lightbringer.

I do not believe Rickon is Dead

I do not believe Coldhands is anyone other then Benjen Stark

I do not believe Aegon is being saved to marry Dany (from Varys POV) he is being saved for Arya

I do not believe much significance can be placed on the parentage of Dorish nobility as Martells have married Targaryen several times.

I do not believe Dany has the only living dragons

I do not believe Ned fathered Jon

I do not believe Tysha is dead or that we havn't met her yet

I do not believe Jon ... permenantly dies

I do not believe Freys have good taste

I do not believe this R+L=J debate was the point of this thread

Thats all I can think of for now.

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I don't believe that any of the Lannisters are secret Targaryens.

Actually other than Jon I don't believe that any established character will be revealed as a secret Targaryen. It would cheapen the effect of Jon being revealed as such in my opinion.

I also don't believe that ANY of what Mirri Maz Duhr told Dany is an actual prophecy.

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I also don't believe that ANY of what Mirri Maz Duhr told Dany is an actual prophecy.

Agreed. The whole Quentyn being a "sun" and rising in the west and setting in the east was most likely just a coincidence, either GRRM didn't realize said coincidence OR it was purposeful to confuse Dany when she return to Mereen into thinking she may one day have kids again when she won't.

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I don't believe its intellectually honest to refuse to believe any theory that has significant supporting evidence, or large numbers of 'suspicious' textual clues (eg Raven calling King in Jon's presecence) supporting it. Even if I judge that theory to be unlikely.

Belief means having confidence in a 'truth' after all.

Maybe I'm too cautious, but I somehow suspect thats not the case.

Having said that...

I don't believe Syrio is alive in way, shape or form.

I don't believe Rhaegar, Lyanna or any of the ToJ KG are still living.

I don't believe that Lyanna birthed twins/triplets.

I don't believe Wylla or Ashara are Jon's mother, nor Ned is his father.

I don't believe Doran is a paedophile.

All of the above have, IMO, zero creditable evidence for and significant evidence against.

I don't think Jaime and Cersei are Targs.

I don't think a dragon flew out of Winterfell's ruins.

I don't think that Darkstar is anything more than a minor Dayne from a cadet branch.

I don't think the paste contains Jojen.

I don't think Lemore is Tyene Sand's mother.

I sit firmly on the fence of Tyrion is a Targ, Aegon being real, or Blackfyre, Benjen/Coldhands and others.

Others I may think likely, or have little or no opinion on.

I do believe R+L=J.

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The idea that they were in any way disloyal to Aerys runs contrary to the ToJ dialogue. For instance:

They were just stating the truth.

There's several hints throughout the books (from Feast onwards) that their complete loyalty to Aerys was questionable at best.

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They were just stating the truth.

There's several hints throughout the books (from Feast onwards) that their complete loyalty to Aerys was questionable at best.

Again, that's not the issue. I can believe that these men were flawed. What I have a difficult time believing is that they were flawed in the way you're suggesting while telling Ned that they were honorable KG who do their job. I see a contradiction in We're KG. We swore a vow and we do not flee. But we do go rogue and start to take orders from the crown prince whenever we feel like it!

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Ned as his biological father. Not sure about mother.

Then why all the mystery in book one? Why all the clues? Martin has mention in interviews about multiple clues in the books that lead to things being discovered later in the series. This one just makes too much sense. Ned has too much honor to father a bastard, and is insanely secret about the mother, mix that with the clues from Lyanna's death bed, and this is the logical conclusion. I'm not saying it's set in stone, but Jon's parentage has an important part to play in the story, there is just too much evidence for it. Ned being his father makes no sense what so ever. I'm not trying to troll you, but just wonder what evidence you have against this other than you dont want it to happen.

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i don't believe oberyn poisoned tywin, but why do people think coldhands isn't benjen? just because that would be too predictable? maybe for george on this occasion the most unpredictable thing to do is be predictable, lol, i dunno, it just that the argument, "benjen being coldhands is too predictable", to me, doesn't cut it, i need more evidence

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I don't believe that Lightbringer is actually a magical sword that AA attempted to forge, and I don't believe that no one on this board seems to recognize an allegorical story when it is staring them in the face.

Yes, yes YES!!!

And I don't believe that anyone will need to make any sacrifices to become the prophesied hero that has been alluded to in the text.

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i don't believe oberyn poisoned tywin, but why do people think coldhands isn't benjen? just because that would be too predictable? maybe for george on this occasion the most unpredictable thing to do is be predictable, lol, i dunno, it just that the argument, "benjen being coldhands is too predictable", to me, doesn't cut it, i need more evidence

Leaf says that Coldhands died "long ago." Benjen has been missing, what, a couple of years? Dude's been dead for too long to be Benjen. The Children of the Forest would not think of a couple of years as being "long ago."

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