Gi_Varotti Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ??? I don't remember anything like that. The place with weirwoods which is considered to be a hot candidate for the secret marriage is the Isle of Faces near HarrenhallYes, that's also where I thought that they could have met to run away. I don't remember reading about a tree near the ToJ either but I thought that I have just missed it, although it doesn't seem to be the case now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinslayer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Hasn't Robs story come to an end, dead without pregnant queen, he's been dead for 2 books and no-one seems to look back at him.as king (just as beloved friend and brother)? Unlike Ned, who's still very important!The idea is that, before he died, Robb wrote a will or issued a proclamation legitimizing Jon as a son of Ned Stark and making him heir to the Kingdom in the North. Robb tells Catelyn he is planning to do this shortly before the Red Wedding. He plans to get Jon out of the Watch by offering 100 men to the Watch in exchange. Stannis also seems to think that a king can absolve a member of the Watch from his vows, as he offers to do this for Jon.So I think that if Jon is going to get out of the Watch, Robb's will/proclamation is going to provide the "legal" basis for him to do so, and it will provide the basis for Jon's claim to be King in the North (or at least, Lord of Winterfell). This all gets a little tricky as it relates to Jon's status as Rhaegar's son. If Jon is Rhaegar's bastard, did Robb inadvertently put Jon in line for the Iron Throne (and did he have the power to do that)? If Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, it makes me think of the scene where Dany tells Jorah to knight Arstan Whitebeard (who is, of course, already a knight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I also watched the show before I read the books and I realized that there was some mistery about Jon´s parents and I also had my doubts about Ned beeing Jon´s father. I don´t know where my doubts came from maybe from the "You have my blood sentence", maybe from Ned´s complete refusal to speake about the topic .... From Benjen´s and Jon´s first scene in episode one I got the strange theory that Benjen were Jon´s dad (complete non-sense I know). And when I read the the books, did some research on the internet and found the Alfie Allen quote I developed the theory that Benjen was in league with the Others and we would get an Darth Vader vs. Luke fight in this case Jon vs. Benjen, whom I still believed to be his dad. When I first read a text which suggested R+L=J I thaught that it was complete nonsense, but after I read bit more about the topic and looked closer to the R+L threads I realised that my theory was wrong and that R+L was true.I agree that the hints in the show were made very subtle, because they couldn´t give to much away. Thats also the reason why they have changed Dany´s vision in the HotU and why they didn´t include Ned´s TOJ dream.I agree to all of teh above. I feel like they can't throw too many hints. It is only 10 hours (if that) of footage per season they show. It's harder to bury mysteries than it would in thousands of pages of text.One of the hints I feel was Ned and Jons interaction before he left (on the show). Ned tells Jon he will reveal his mother "next time they meet". Why not now? Why do I have to wait? Your going south I'm going Nort, we may not mee ever again!Well the reason is that Jon would be a sworn brother at that point and would not be able to avenge his father and take his throne due to the vows he swore. I think that was the tiny hint they threw in season one.Once it's revealed and people circle back to rewatch season one, it will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_wolf Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The idea is that, before he died, Robb wrote a will or issued a proclamation legitimizing Jon as a son of Ned Stark and making him heir to the Kingdom in the North. Robb tells Catelyn he is planning to do this shortly before the Red Wedding. He plans to get Jon out of the Watch by offering 100 men to the Watch in exchange.Stannis also seems to think that a king can absolve a member of the Watch from his vows, as he offers to do this for Jon.So I think that if Jon is going to get out of the Watch, Robb's will/proclamation is going to provide the "legal" basis for him to do so, and it will provide the basis for Jon's claim to be King in the North (or at least, Lord of Winterfell).This all gets a little tricky as it relates to Jon's status as Rhaegar's son. If Jon is Rhaegar's bastard, did Robb inadvertently put Jon in line for the Iron Throne (and did he have the power to do that)? If Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, it makes me think of the scene where Dany tells Jorah to knight Arstan Whitebeard (who is, of course, already a knight).I know he mentioned Jon as an heir, to prevent Sansa and Tyrion from claiming Winterwel.But it was only an idea, not executed, or was it? I thought not :)And if Jon is Rhaegars natural son, he's got no claim whatsoever. I like your comparison though. It is a bit weird :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinslayer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I know he mentioned Jon as an heir, to prevent Sansa and Tyrion from claiming Winterwel.But it was only an idea, not executed, or was it? I thought not :)And if Jon is Rhaegars natural son, he's got no claim whatsoever. I like your comparison though. It is a bit weird :)Yeah, I could just picture Robb asking Howland Reed to witness the proclamation and Howland saying "No"!The books don't explicitly say that Robb followed through with this plan, so we don't know for sure. But I think he did it. He explained the plan to Catelyn and she didn't like it. Then, she was present when Robb asked his lords to witness the proclamation (or whatever the document was) and she doesn't say that Robb changed his mind -- she just says something like "now he really is a king." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Green Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I know he mentioned Jon as an heir, to prevent Sansa and Tyrion from claiming Winterwel.But it was only an idea, not executed, or was it? I thought not :)And if Jon is Rhaegars natural son, he's got no claim whatsoever. I like your comparison though. It is a bit weird :)I'm pretty sure that he did follow through it, he asked his bannerlords to sign his Will while Catelyn was there and she wasn't too impressed about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady KotLT Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I agree to all of teh above. I feel like they can't throw too many hints. It is only 10 hours (if that) of footage per season they show. It's harder to bury mysteries than it would in thousands of pages of text.One of the hints I feel was Ned and Jons interaction before he left (on the show). Ned tells Jon he will reveal his mother "next time they meet". Why not now? Why do I have to wait? Your going south I'm going Nort, we may not mee ever again!Well the reason is that Jon would be a sworn brother at that point and would not be able to avenge his father and take his throne due to the vows he swore. I think that was the tiny hint they threw in season one.Once it's revealed and people circle back to rewatch season one, it will be there.I do like this, like Ned saying you have my/Stark blood, and just not you're my son Jon.Jon's parentage has to be handled carefully on the show but i think if the comments about what people thought of Rhaegar start to drop (eg Barristan), it'll have the viewers thinking hmm maybe Robert was wrong about Rhaegar...and follow from there. If the show is going to carry on for many more seasons (which i hope it does) this topic needs to be released slowly. i look forward to see how it is dealt with!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I know he mentioned Jon as an heir, to prevent Sansa and Tyrion from claiming Winterwel.But it was only an idea, not executed, or was it? I thought not :)And if Jon is Rhaegars natural son, he's got no claim whatsoever. I like your comparison though. It is a bit weird :)Yeah, I could just picture Robb asking Howland Reed to witness the proclamation and Howland saying "No"!The books don't explicitly say that Robb followed through with this plan, so we don't know for sure. But I think he did it. He explained the plan to Catelyn and she didn't like it. Then, she was present when Robb asked his lords to witness the proclamation (or whatever the document was) and she doesn't say that Robb changed his mind -- she just says something like "now he really is a king."It has been confirmed by the WOIAF Application that he did indeed name Jon heir and sent Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont North with the will.Also, if he is named successor by a king, his background doesn't matter. The will itself is his claim. This is of course, if the aforementioned king is recognized as king by his people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_wolf Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 It has been confirmed by the WOIAF Application that he did indeed name Jon heir and sent Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont North with the will.Also, if he is named successor by a king, his background doesn't matter. The will itself is his claim. This is of course, if the aforementioned king is recognized as king by his people.Then why didn't they go to the wall imediately after the red wedding and get Jon. Thanks btw for the info, what does WOIAF stand for please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_wolf Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Yeah, I could just picture Robb asking Howland Reed to witness the proclamation and Howland saying "No"!The books don't explicitly say that Robb followed through with this plan, so we don't know for sure. But I think he did it. He explained the plan to Catelyn and she didn't like it. Then, she was present when Robb asked his lords to witness the proclamation (or whatever the document was) and she doesn't say that Robb changed his mind -- she just says something like "now he really is a king."Howland, the key to everything ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady KotLT Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Howland, the key to everything ^^He really is, HR better be in the WOW! He has alot of information to reveal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Then why didn't they go to the wall imediately after the red wedding and get Jon. Thanks btw for the info, what does WOIAF stand for please?WOIAF= World of Ice and Fire the name of the App. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_wolf Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 -_- abbreviations, one can only know so many, thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Green Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Then why didn't they go to the wall imediately after the red wedding and get Jon. Thanks btw for the info, what does WOIAF stand for please?They might be on the way to the Wall, they might be almost there, but they had to get through winter, the ironmen and general war to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady KotLT Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Then why didn't they go to the wall imediately after the red wedding and get Jon. Thanks btw for the info, what does WOIAF stand for please?Alot of the Northern houses had family members taken hostage during the RW, i think they feared for their lives. Their armies were slaughtered after the RW so i think they didn't want to be attacked by Freys/Boltons/Lannisters if they were seen to go against the King again. Maybe there were waiting for the right time and just have a plan of attack first and get back the hostages perferably alive, before getting a new King in the North. This is what i took from the situation in the north after RW.WOIAF-Wiki of Ice and Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Alot of the Northern houses had family members taken hostage during the RW, i think they feared for their lives. Their armies were slaughtered after the RW so i think they didn't want to be attacked by Freys/Boltons/Lannisters if they were seen to go against the King again. Maybe there were waiting for the right time and just have a plan of attack first and get back the hostages perferably alive, before getting a new King in the North. This is what i took from the situation in the north after RW.WOIAF-Wiki of Ice and FireTheir last orders were to find Greywater watchand get the crannogmen to help them. They might be well with Howland at the moment for all we know.WOIAF App is the recently appeared World of Ice and Fire application for I Pads and I phones. I don't have such devices, but there was a nice thread about the application where people with access shared stuff. It's great, because some suspicions are confirmed, and it's official and approved by GRRM, whereas the wiki is not canon and is mostly fanmade.And yes, before tha app it was not 100% sure that Jon is indeed in the will, or that it was traveling with Mormont and Glover, but now it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_wolf Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 link to that tread pretty pretty please! :wideeyed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 link to that tread pretty pretty please! :wideeyed:That one is locked, but the first post has pretty much everything synthesized.And this one, that is actually the first one created is still open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady KotLT Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Their last orders were to find Greywater watchand get the crannogmen to help them. They might be well with Howland at the moment for all we know.WOIAF App is the recently appeared World of Ice and Fire application for I Pads and I phones. I don't have such devices, but there was a nice thread about the application where people with access shared stuff. It's great, because some suspicions are confirmed, and it's official and approved by GRRM, whereas the wiki is not canon and is mostly fanmade.And yes, before tha app it was not 100% sure that Jon is indeed in the will, or that it was traveling with Mormont and Glover, but now it is.Shame. Any chance the app will be coming out for android soon??Its great that the will has actually been confirmed!! I think if Jon knew it was what Robb wanted he would go through with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_wolf Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 http://asoiaf.wester...-awoiaf-app-v2/That one is locked, but the first post has pretty much everything synthesized.http://asoiaf.wester...-in-awoiaf-app/And this one, that is actually the first one created is still open.oeeee :bowdown: Danku !will take a deep look on it tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.