RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is it just me that thought Arianne's relationship with Daemon is alarmingly similar to Asha Greyjoys with that low born Ironborn? Have these characters not become the same? Can we expect this means Asha is not living through the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is it just me that thought Arianne's relationship with Daemon is alarmingly similar to Asha Greyjoys with that low born Ironborn? Have these characters not become the same? Can we expect this means Asha is not living through the book?The only difference being that Asha was never going to rule. The King's Moot made that clear. But agree that the character storyline's are becoming circular. Some if this may be by design. GRRM may be creating similarity to throw people off of the trail. He gave up Jon's true parentage (although it is not official by any means) way too early and does not want to make the same mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDDUnit Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Okay, so we've gotten beyond not understanding the stigma of bastardry (kind of), and now we're stuck on an inability to understand the political importance of marriage in a fuedal society. Sorry, still can't work with you.I have to back you on this one. Legitimization only occurs for when someone needs an heir and they have only bastards. This is why Ramsay is legitimized and why Rob needed to legitimize Jon. Legitimizing the 4th youngest Sand Snake who is the daughter of the younger brother of the Prince of Dorne would make no sense at all. Her marriage credentials are for lesser lords or a famous knight at best even if she wasn't a bastard. Fuedal society was built on loveless marriages. Aegon knows he needs Dany to preserve the Targs, but if that marriage does not work, then he would need a high lord's daughter such as Arianne or Margaery Tyrell. Elia is most likely there as an offer to other houses to marry her to help forge alliances between other lesser houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogpile Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The fourth thing that stuck out and is probably the biggest forshadowing we've seen in the series concerning the battle for the throne between Dany, Aegon, and possibly Jon snow:"Once we know beyond a doubt whether these be friends or foes, my father will know what to do," the princess said. It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate. "It is dragons." "Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don't be mad." "I'm not. They're coming." "How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?" Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."Ya i think there will be a second dance of dragons war and the last of the Targs will duke it out with each other in some form or another in Westeros before this is all over.honestly i believe both of these things say that there will be a redo of the previous Dance of Dragons obviously. i think these two parts were the most important info of the chapter... also apparently Jc takin storms end.I also think this is hugely important. Everything about this (House Toland?) I now want to know. Someone else pointed out they don't have any of the classic Dornish features, They are fair skinned and red haired. The girl Teora is having prophetic dreams. Ran pointed out in the previous thread it's probably not green dreams but the Targ dragon dreams (Dunk and Egg anyone). The castle is ancient. GRRM leads the description with the Square Towers in each corner, not the modern rounded ones. Jamie talks about the evolution of castle engineering when he thinks about some other castle in the riverlands. And the Lady of the house has a book describing how the Dornish melted away before the dragon conquerors. Didn't Arianne II sample have something about COTF and caves. Oh Yeah. These people and what they know are very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofashes Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Dorne is going to be pissed. No marriage for Arianne and the son burnt to a crisp. Especially bad since the Dornish that went with Q are going to come back with stories of how Dany spurned and mocked him by rejecting him then sleeping with a sellsword. All I can say is no wonder grrm is taking ages. This is getting complex as helledit. good catch on the square towers and cotf caves! can someone tell me exactly where they are? north east Dorne? straight up from sunspear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogpile Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thanks. I'm pretty sure Arianne II is set in the stormlands. Cape Wrath area. They were headed for Griffin's Roost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofashes Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 yeah but Arianne 1? she is still getting housed by dornish lords/ladys. I was just curious where the family with the dreamer was based. I guess theres no way of knowing though.Was there something about Dorne being split by the cotf? or am I getting mixed up with Moat Caitlin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Sprungfeld Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is it just me that thought Arianne's relationship with Daemon is alarmingly similar to Asha Greyjoys with that low born Ironborn? Have these characters not become the same? Can we expect this means Asha is not living through the book?I definately think there is a parallel between the two and Dany, but don't think it ends there. Dany's relationship to Darrio could also be counted as a parallel (Tristifer, Arys, and Jorah are also highborn admirers who are not loved back). Arienne at the end of the chapter thinks about Dany watching her brother die,Asha is currently in a similar situation with Theon, and Arienne will have to deal with her brother's death at some point. Asha may choose a different path and die to save Theon. However I don't believe she would neither be willing to die for Theon considering his condition and the cold count in the camp, nor would the Northmen be willing to accept the exchange. I think this points to Asha allying with the North and probably is an opposing role to Dany and Arienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogpile Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 yeah but Arianne 1? she is still getting housed by dornish lords/ladys. I was just curious where the family with the dreamer was based. I guess theres no way of knowing though.Was there something about Dorne being split by the cotf? or am I getting mixed up with Moat Caitlin?Arianne met the dreamer at Ghost Hill, on the coast of the sea of Dorne. And it was Dorne that was supposedly bashed by the hammer of the waters called down by the COTF creating the "broken arm" of Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 What does everyone think about Arianne (and her father) doubting that Griff is Aegon. I don't believe that Griff is THE Aegon, but I fully expected the characters in the series to believe he was yet that isn't what we've seen so far. In fact, every character we've seen mention it has rejected the idea that h eis really the son of Elia and Rhaegar, so where do we go from here? Will some people, like the Dornish, put aside their reservations quickly, or will no one actually believe that Griff is a Targaryen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Daemon Sand found her leaning on a parapet and gazing out to sea, where the moon was dancing on the water.I think that may be a reference to Arya, water dancer associated with the moon. The moon is in contrast to Arianne, whose sigil is the sun.He [Quentyn] looks too much like Father.This foreshadows Doran's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Doran's death doesn't need foreshadowing - if anything, it foreshadows Quentyn's death.I think Arianne will be more surprised to find out that Quentyn died stealing dragons than she will be by news of his death. The latter is foreshadowed by his likeness to Doran, the former is definitely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Doran's death doesn't need foreshadowing - if anything, it foreshadows Quentyn's death.I think Arianne will be more surprised to find out that Quentyn died stealing dragons than she will be by news of his death. The latter is foreshadowed by his likeness to Doran, the former is definitely not.Foreshadows Quentyn's death? But didn't he already die in the last book? Foreshadowing doesn't apply to characters who already died onscreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 What does everyone think about Arianne (and her father) doubting that Griff is Aegon. I don't believe that Griff is THE Aegon, but I fully expected the characters in the series to believe he was yet that isn't what we've seen so far. In fact, every character we've seen mention it has rejected the idea that h eis really the son of Elia and Rhaegar, so where do we go from here? Will some people, like the Dornish, put aside their reservations quickly, or will no one actually believe that Griff is a Targaryen?Why would anybody immediately believe that a newly sprung up heir to House Targaryen is really who he claims he is, and not just some impostor trying to steal the Iron Throne in a time of crisis? They will want to evaluate this new Aegon first - and his ability to win and hold the Iron Throne. His successes will be what will buy him support, and strengthen the belief that he is really Aegon Targaryen. Just as failures would drive away potential supporters. Failure to secure Dornish support would be a grievous failure because that would indicate that his mother's kin does not believe in him.At the moment, even Houses trying to make contact with Aegon would publicly declare that they don't believe that Aegon is really Rhaegar's son. That would just gain them the enmity of the Lannister-Baratheons and Tyrells who still hold the power in King's Landing. Only if their impression of Aegon is favorable will they openly join his cause.His victory in the Stormlands and Arianne's visit have just started the snowball downhill. I think we'll see it gaining momentum in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Why would anybody immediately believe that a newly sprung up heir to House Targaryen is really who he claims he is, and not just some impostor trying to steal the Iron Throne in a time of crisis? They will want to evaluate this new Aegon first - and his ability to win and hold the Iron Throne. His successes will be what will buy him support, and strengthen the belief that he is really Aegon Targaryen. Just as failures would drive away potential supporters. Failure to secure Dornish support would be a grievous failure because that would indicate that his mother's kin does not believe in him.At the moment, even Houses trying to make contact with Aegon would publicly declare that they don't believe that Aegon is really Rhaegar's son. That would just gain them the enmity of the Lannister-Baratheons and Tyrells who still hold the power in King's Landing. Only if their impression of Aegon is favorable will they openly join his cause.His victory in the Stormlands and Arianne's visit have just started the snowball downhill. I think we'll see it gaining momentum in WoW.Agreed, I fully expect Aegon (real or not) to be either sitting the iron throne or besieging KL by the end of TWOW. He will soon have a consolidated Stormlands, Dorne, Reach houses, loyalists from the Crownlands and as many suspect, sea power in the form of Aurane "Pirate Lord" Waters. The only question is whether he will stay on the throne IMO? Dreams of dancing dragons would suggest that he will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I think that only few people really care if Aegon is Aegon, though Martells do. For most of lords their relationship with Lannisters and prospect of what can they gain would be more important. Also no one wants to be on a losing side. Aegon needs to show that he is the winer and many will support him without really caring about the truth or law of succession as they did with Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittensRuleBeetsDrool Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 WRT Daemon Sand as a possible seducer of JonCon - the latter has greyscale - will he risk being found out? I suppose they could do some act where clothes mostly stay on, but if JonCon fears he is contagious, that might stop things. Or if Daemon found out that JC has greyscale that might introduce a new twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Leonardo Tyrell Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hi people first post here...Arianne chapter was epic. I really like daemon sand and the whole thing of the pirate lord aka Aurane Waters ( is seems) was just awesome.I enjoy also the thoughts that arianne got about daenerys, add more realism to the storyIn my opinion The Winds of winter is going to be the best book in the series or at least i wope so! :wideeyed:Sorry for the writing english is not my native language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I thought it was a pretty boring chapter, though I guess I shouldn't expect anything too different from an Arianne chapter. I really hope Winds of Winter can get us back to the pacing of books 1 and 3 (or at least 2), or at least that GRRM can tighten up the unnecessary number of POVS, but this chapter and the info that we're getting another Damphair POV chapter and a second Arianne isn't exactly encouraging. We'll see if he can pull this off in eight books or if he's going to need a ninth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelapsi Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 We'll see if he can pull this off in eight books or if he's going to need a ninth...Eight ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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