9 horrifyingly botched police raids: How do we keep this from happening?

[Shryke]

Swat teams and breaking down doors and getting all dressed up in fancy gear seem to be so very sexy and masculine and studly for police, though, no? I mean, they are just the manly things to do. And it just cheeses me off that up here in Canada the police and their right-wing mouthpieces in the press explain to us that our police departments just don't have the stuff American police departments have, to go and bust down doors and face the drug dealers who are much better armed than the police force and we need more and more more.

Has there actually been a problem with cops getting gunned down in drug raids in Canada?

[Talleyrand]

Nuremburg defense?

Here's how you get a search warrant (from memory, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) - Officer has to get a judge to sign off on one. They do this by showing the judge sufficient evidence that a crime has probably taken place, as well as swear to personal knowledge that additional evidence is likely to be found in the property. They must specifically name the location to be searched, and the items they are searching for.

The only way to end up at a wrong door is to either be wrong (and thus lying to the judge) about which place it is you want to search, to be inept (show up at an address which is not listed on the search warrant), or to be corrupt (to do both).

If you are kicking down a door, I don't think it's a tremendous burden that you personally look at the search warrant and verify the address.

I was meaning more if the officer in charge is the one making a mistake and the team who kick down the door were simply told "its that one."

Are these men/women now liable?

[Kalbear]

Has there actually been a problem with cops getting gunned down in drug raids in Canada?

Yes, but they were really polite about it

[Fragile Bird]

Has there actually been a problem with cops getting gunned down in drug raids in Canada?

No. But it's the gangs in Toronto, the Asian gangs in Vancouver, the Indian gangs on the prairies, that are supposed to be heavily armed. So few police officers are actually killed in Canada, of course, though I think most have been killed by guns. There was the Toronto officer killed by that nutbar driving the stolen snowplow, and several have been killed in Ontario in traffic collisions. But then you get a situation like the infamous time where the four Mounties were killed by the drug dealer in Alberta, with a high powered hunting rifle, wasn't it?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Here's one more via Dalthor on Facebook:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2010/05/17/aiyana-jones-7-year-old-s_n_578246.html

From the link:

DETROIT — Police who carried out a raid on a family home that left a 7-year-old girl dead over the weekend were accompanied by a camera crew for a reality television show, and an attorney says video of the siege contradicts the police account of what happened.

Geoffrey Fieger, an attorney for the family of young Aiyana Jones, said he has seen three or four minutes of video of the raid, although he declined to say whether it was shot by the crew for the A&E series "The First 48," which has been shadowing Detroit homicide detectives for months.

Police have said officers threw a flash grenade through the first-floor window of the two-family home, and that an officer's gun discharged, killing the girl, during a struggle or after colliding with the girl's grandmother inside the home.

I cannot imagine.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Me personally? How close? If its pointed at my head I would prefer a knife.

Is the gun 50 yards away? Is the guy shooting other people and I need to stop him?

Do i have to use non lethal way in this scenario so ties in with the thread?

The mind boggles! If someone points a gun at your head, you would use a knife. If he is more than an arm's length from you, you are dead. Is he "shooting other people"? Is his shooting at other people or you, change things significantly? I don't know whether you have to use non-lethal force, but you have to use the amount and type of force that is most likely to keep someone blowing you or others away. I omitted the 50 yards thing since short of having the Enterprise beam you up, I can't think of any non-lethal means that would work at that distance.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

The mind boggles! If someone points a gun at your head, you would use a knife. If he is more than an arm's length from you, you are dead. Is he "shooting other people"? Is his shooting at other people or you, change things significantly? I don't know whether you have to use non-lethal force, but you have to use the amount and type of force that is most likely to keep someone blowing you or others away. I omitted the 50 yards thing since short of having the Enterprise beam you up, I can't think of any non-lethal means that would work at that distance.

Im not the police i dont have to do any of that

[Robin Of House Hill]

Well, I fell into that trap, fair and square. I assume then if someone is shooting at others, your non-lethal response would be to haul ass out of there.

[TrueMetis]

No. But it's the gangs in Toronto, the Asian gangs in Vancouver, the Indian gangs on the prairies, that are supposed to be heavily armed. So few police officers are actually killed in Canada, of course, though I think most have been killed by guns. There was the Toronto officer killed by that nutbar driving the stolen snowplow, and several have been killed in Ontario in traffic collisions. But then you get a situation like the infamous time where the four Mounties were killed by the drug dealer in Alberta, with a high powered hunting rifle, wasn't it?

It was an HK91, which is a semi-auto rifle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayerthorpe_tragedy

[Noontidal]

I would want a really good taser. Tasers hurt more than being shot, and short of a headshot are somewhat more effective at incapacitating someone while being significantly less lethal and usually causing no lasting harm, aside from perhaps the memory of the pain. Seems we should be able to develop a long-range variety.

[TrueMetis]

I would want a really good taser. Tasers hurt more than being shot, and short of a headshot are somewhat more effective at incapacitating someone while being significantly less lethal and usually causing no lasting harm, aside from perhaps the memory of the pain. Seems we should be able to develop a long-range variety.

And preferably with more oversight into the voltage and amperage the Taser uses. I remember doing some research on Tasers in high school that suggested that the main problem with Tasers is that while they were supposed to be at 50000 volts some were at significantly higher or lower voltages.

[Merentha]

I was meaning more if the officer in charge is the one making a mistake and the team who kick down the door were simply told "its that one."

Are these men/women now liable?

Both would be liable, in an ideal situation. A team should ideally be reviewing where, why, and what they're kicking down before they do it. People suspected to be inside, possible targets, the reason that this raid requires a kick-in-the-door in the first place, the goals, and so forth. In completely emergent situations, where SWAT is immediately assembled and possibly briefed in-transit, then I'd say the supervisors would be the ones held most responsible.

This shit is vile.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I would want a really good taser. Tasers hurt more than being shot, and short of a headshot are somewhat more effective at incapacitating someone while being significantly less lethal and usually causing no lasting harm, aside from perhaps the memory of the pain. Seems we should be able to develop a long-range variety.

Hurt more? Probably not (depending on where you are shot). Would you rather be tazed or shot in the elbow?

Long range - check out the taser shotgun shell.

[Fragile Bird]

Taser shotgun shell????

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Taser shotgun shell

[Fragile Bird]

Great! Now you can taser to death people from a longer distance.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I imagine if you are firing a shotgun at them then killing them is probably the idea. All the same, I'd rather be shot by one of those than one of these.

[Noontidal]

I would rather be tased than shot, because a shot = permanent injury of some kind and much higher probability of death. A taser poses no risk of death for me, because I lack those extra causes that make a taser about as lethal as one more double cheeseburger. But, a taser is more painful, it's just not going to kill me or break any bones etc.

[Sixshells]

The trouble with "non-lethal" weapons is that their much lesser (but not null) probability of causing death is so much touted that they run the risk of being considered as too much less dangerous than firearms by their users. That in turn may contribute to less restraint in their use, even when it is not warranted. I'm sure there is somewhere on the internet an article similar to the one in the OP about abuse committed by police officers using tasers, as there have been noticeable cases over the years. Assuming the victims of such abuse do not die (which is still a possibility in some cases with a taser), officiers misusing tasers should probably still face charges of assault and/or torture.

Just to say, problem isn't simply in the opprtunities provided by the tools at the disposal of the police. The main issues are the culture in the police force, inadequate training, and lack of accountability in case of abuse or mistake.

[Sturn]

After reading through this and noting some good educated points and some humorous ones, I made a list.

Ok, we need to hire new police since we just dismantled the old corrupt system. Here are the new rules.....

1. Wear this camera, if it fails while making an arrest, you will be charged with a crime.
   
2. If you accidentally enter the wrong residence in pursuit of a suspect, you will be charged with a felony.
   
3. If you accidentally point your gun at an innocent when you think he is a suspect, you will be charged with an aggravated felony.
   
4. You can’t have a real firearm.
   
5. If someone points a gun at you, tell him not to shoot at you please while you stop to pull out a flash bang or tear gas and don a mask.
   
6. If someone points a gun at you, tell him not to shoot at you please while you stop to unfold your pocket riot shield.
   
7. If someone points a gun at you, tell him not to shoot at you please while you shoot a 25 foot ranged, inaccurate, unreliable taser at him.
   
8. If you enter the wrong residence even though you were given an order to do so and handed a warrant stating so, you will still be charged with a felony, not just the guy who screwed up the warrant.
   
9. If someone puts a gun to your head, don’t use a gun or knife in defense, use your hands.
   
10. You work crap hours, get crap pay, will probably get badly hurt (or worse) at some point, and deal with horrible situations from time to time.
    

Ok who wants to sign up?