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Rickon`s Regent


Mladen

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Roose cannot realistically be Rickon's regent since he participated in the demise of his family. Either he rules as his own, either he dies

Actually, Roose could get away with that.

So far the Red Wedding has been entirely blamed on the Freys. (Though Roose himself was present). The Bolton-Frey alliance is easily seen as stemming from a mutual alliance with the Lannister-controlled Iron Throne and natural given his Roose's Frey wife (ie not through cooperative treachery).

The Burning of Winterfell and the slaughter of its inhabitants and protectors has been blamed squarely on the Ironborn who did in fact seize Winterfell (and Torrhen's Square and Moat Cailin).

Who could profess different as a witness? Who knows that it was the Boltons behind the betrayal?

Winterfell Destruction:

- Bolton soldiers

They Sworn to & fearful of Roose&Ramsay, but maybe. There is a line somewhere, if someone would like to find the quote, stating that men who had served under Bolton knew better than to question an order... suggesting that Roose has his men well in line. But it just takes one. I find it curious that while we hear stories of the activities of Frey and Manderly men etc in Winterfel during the wedding of "Arya" and Ramsay, we absolutely nothing about the activities of the Bolton men. Perhaps they keep to themselves ...or is it something else.

- Surviving Winterfell inhabitants

Locked away beneath the Dreadfort. I don't see them witnessing to anythign unless the Dreadfort is captured or the Boltons coerced into freeing them. Even if they are released they may be severely psychologically battered if not "re-programmed" to some extent, though probably not as badly as Reek II/Theon. Or, if Roose is forced to release them he can kill them all and claim that their injuries from the Battle of Winterfell were too severe and they too old.

- Escaped non-Bolton Soldiers from Battle of Winterfell under Cley Cerwyn

I think Ramsay was thorough in killing them all, but maybe not. The text speaks of a long post-battle phase of killing off survivors. Cley Cerwyn's relatively small force was taken utterly by surprise so I think it less likely someone escaped.

- The Stark boys (Bran, Rickon + Osha & Hodor)

While they may be believed if they chose to blame it on the Boltons, they were out of sight and hearshot deep underground within the Stark crypts. They saw/heard nothing until they left the crypts to find the aftermath. From their point of view it could as easily have been the Ironmen.

- Ramsay Bolton

Actually an admission from Ramsay might not be that far fetched. Ramsay is proud of his cunning. But he may realise that in this case his silence is key to holding the North in Bolton hands.

- Wex

Wex cannot speak but in time he can perhaps tell all. Wex is the real witness. But he is ironborn and a captive of the Manderlys so perhaps Bolton can simply deny his story.

Red Wedding

- The captives from the Red Wedding

I imagine these will eventually be released but perhaps they are all executed because they know to much. I'm not sure the Iron throne intends to ever release them. The Young Wolf was well loved and the North is fierce and it is the captives that keep many Northern Houses within the King's Peace. But even so, there was not a large contingent of Bolton men involved in the Red Wedding massacre (correct me if I'm wrong), just Roose Bolton himself who killed Robb. Catelyn noticed Roose actually kill Robb Stark, but in the confusion the other Northmen may not have noticed. Roose could merely present himself as a survivor who either escaped or was release by the Iron Throne to deal with the North.

- Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart

The Brothers without Banners are off the reservation and not in Contact with the North but Catelyn no doubt remembers Roose Boltons part in the Red Wedding.

---------

In all there are several places that a leak could happen but overall things Roose can counter. Except for Wex, wex could be a problem.

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Actually, Roose could get away with that.

So far the Red Wedding has been entirely blamed on the Freys. (Though Roose himself was present). The Bolton-Frey alliance is easily seen as stemming from a mutual alliance with the Lannister-controlled Iron Throne and natural given his Roose's Frey wife (ie not through cooperative treachery).

The Burning of Winterfell and the slaughter of its inhabitants and protectors has been blamed squarely on the Ironborn who did in fact seize Winterfell (and Torrhen's Square and Moat Cailin).

Who could profess different as a witness? Who knows that it was the Boltons behind the betrayal?

Winterfell Destruction:

- Bolton soldiers

They Sworn to & fearful of Roose&Ramsay, but maybe. There is a line somewhere, if someone would like to find the quote, stating that men who had served under Bolton knew better than to question an order... suggesting that Roose has his men well in line. But it just takes one. I find it curious that while we hear stories of the activities of Frey and Manderly men etc in Winterfel during the wedding of "Arya" and Ramsay, we absolutely nothing about the activities of the Bolton men. Perhaps they keep to themselves ...or is it something else.

- Surviving Winterfell inhabitants

Locked away beneath the Dreadfort. I don't see them witnessing to anythign unless the Dreadfort is captured or the Boltons coerced into freeing them. Even if they are released they may be severely psychologically battered if not "re-programmed" to some extent, though probably not as badly as Reek II/Theon. Or, if Roose is forced to release them he can kill them all and claim that their injuries from the Battle of Winterfell were too severe and they too old.

- Escaped non-Bolton Soldiers from Battle of Winterfell under Cley Cerwyn

I think Ramsay was thorough in killing them all, but maybe not. The text speaks of a long post-battle phase of killing off survivors. Cley Cerwyn's relatively small force was taken utterly by surprise so I think it less likely someone escaped.

- The Stark boys (Bran, Rickon + Osha & Hodor)

While they may be believed if they chose to blame it on the Boltons, they were out of sight and hearshot deep underground within the Stark crypts. They saw/heard nothing until they left the crypts to find the aftermath. From their point of view it could as easily have been the Ironmen.

- Ramsay Bolton

Actually an admission from Ramsay might not be that far fetched. Ramsay is proud of his cunning. But he may realise that in this case his silence is key to holding the North in Bolton hands.

- Wex

Wex cannot speak but in time he can perhaps tell all. Wex is the real witness. But he is ironborn and a captive of the Manderlys so perhaps Bolton can simply deny his story.

Red Wedding

- The captives from the Red Wedding

I imagine these will eventually be released but perhaps they are all executed because they know to much. I'm not sure the Iron throne intends to ever release them. The Young Wolf was well loved and the North is fierce and it is the captives that keep many Northern Houses within the King's Peace. But even so, there was not a large contingent of Bolton men involved in the Red Wedding massacre (correct me if I'm wrong), just Roose Bolton himself who killed Robb. Catelyn noticed Roose actually kill Robb Stark, but in the confusion the other Northmen may not have noticed. Roose could merely present himself as a survivor who either escaped or was release by the Iron Throne to deal with the North.

- Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart

The Brothers without Banners are off the reservation and not in Contact with the North but Catelyn no doubt remembers Roose Boltons part in the Red Wedding.

---------

In all there are several places that a leak could happen but overall things Roose can counter. Except for Wex, wex could be a problem.

you forgot Bran, who can communicate through the heart trees.

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Actually, Roose could get away with that.

So far the Red Wedding has been entirely blamed on the Freys. (Though Roose himself was present). The Bolton-Frey alliance is easily seen as stemming from a mutual alliance with the Lannister-controlled Iron Throne and natural given his Roose's Frey wife (ie not through cooperative treachery).

The Burning of Winterfell and the slaughter of its inhabitants and protectors has been blamed squarely on the Ironborn who did in fact seize Winterfell (and Torrhen's Square and Moat Cailin).

Who could profess different as a witness? Who knows that it was the Boltons behind the betrayal?

Tywin Lannister. By naming Roose Bolton Warden on the North, legitimizing Ramsay and giving him "Arya", he painted a fluorescent target shield on Roose's back. He ostensibly was one of Robb's highest-ranked generals. The Iron Throne should have punished him severely - but Roose got awarded for his services for the crown.

People know, alright. They don't have enough evidence to prove Roose's treason in a court of law, but something tells me that's not what Wyman Manderly or Big Bucket Wull are after.

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  • 7 months later...

Sansa isn't even old enough to rule yet so I don't know why people keep mentioning her as a regent. She would be a regent who needs a regent herself.

Even if she was sixteen and old enough is a teenage girl really the best choice? The situation will be dire. The Others are knocking on the door, the North is divided, winter is here and all the troubles that come along with it, the wildlings are in the Gift, and the realm is still at war and there are rebellions that need to be put down. This is not a job for a teenage girl.

This is a job for a hardened veteran who has fought in many wars and seen a few winters. It is also very important this person is a respected Northman. As much as I like the Blackfish I doubt the Northerners want to listen to a Tully from the Riverlands.

My choice would be an Umber, Mormont, or Manderly. They are loyal to the Starks, respected, and are no strangers to war and winter.

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Sansa isn't even old enough to rule yet so I don't know why people keep mentioning her as a regent. She would be a regent who needs a regent herself.

Even if she was sixteen and old enough is a teenage girl really the best choice? The situation will be dire. The Others are knocking on the door, the North is divided, winter is here and all the troubles that come along with it, the wildlings are in the Gift, and the realm is still at war and there are rebellions that need to be put down. This is not a job for a teenage girl.

This is a job for a hardened veteran who has fought in many wars and seen a few winters. It is also very important this person is a respected Northman. As much as I like the Blackfish I doubt the Northerners want to listen to a Tully from the Riverlands.

My choice would be an Umber, Mormont, or Manderly. They are loyal to the Starks, respected, and are no strangers to war and winter.

Since August seems to be month of resurrection for my old threads, it's interesting to see how much I have changed my POV... And although I still believe Sansa would be great regent, at this moment, Jon is my first choice... He fulfills all the necessary requirements for the leader North needs in dire sitiuation like the future war with Others. And with Robb's will, NW probable dissolving, he is number 1 guy for the job...

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Tywin Lannister. By naming Roose Bolton Warden on the North, legitimizing Ramsay and giving him "Arya", he painted a fluorescent target shield on Roose's back. He ostensibly was one of Robb's highest-ranked generals. The Iron Throne should have punished him severely - but Roose got awarded for his services for the crown.

People know, alright. They don't have enough evidence to prove Roose's treason in a court of law, but something tells me that's not what Wyman Manderly or Big Bucket Wull are after.

I disagree. Almost every noble house had prominent members in Robb Starks War host. You cannot execute every fighting noble in the North. Others were pardoned. Young Manderly took forces south to Duskendale and he was amicably ransomed back to the his family and forgiven. If all were simply executed there would be no-one left to rule the North. And the North is a wild alien country a Southron Lord would struggle to understand. It serves the Iron Throne to keep the balance to keep the North.

Also, as both Jaime Lannister and Lord Walder Frey point out a local lord has a littany of oaths to reconcile. Fealty to the King, to his liege lord, to the knightly ideals and even to his faith. Other considerations (including Political expediency, convenience, survival, a sense of general justice and personal convictions) tip the balance and point one's actions. It's not fixed but loose and open to interpretations. But it seems to be reasonably widely accepted (if only as a justification) that it is honourable to obey one's immediate liege lord even if it goes against one's principles and other oaths. Loyalty can be respected even in the carrying out of treason.

(Ironically this is exactly the opposite of Roose Bolton. But ostensibly he is the loyal Stark retainer until the death of them all, at which point his fealty to the realm and Iron Throne "take precedence"), He is is legitimizing his rule with a marriage to "Arya", so in supporting his son he is "supporting the Starks".

Of course, nobody likes Roose Bolton and see through his loyalty. But according to the public facts he is more likely to be accused of opportunism than betrayal.

The Starks are attainted because they defied their immediate liege lord, the King on the Iron Throne, of their own free will. They have been stripped of Winterfell?

The suspicious thing isn't that the Lannisters are being so generous to the Boltons, it is simply and only that Roose Bolton survived the Red Wedding. Only Freys have been publically blamed for that. And the only Northmen that know Roose was there are the dead and captured from the Red Wedding (yet to tell the world at large).

After House Stark was ostensibly extinguished who else was the Iron Throne supposed to grant Wardenship of the North to? The Boltons are the dominant house. They controlled much of the North before the Starks put them down. And it is the Iron Throne's right and perogative to name the Warden of the North. Only tradition and respect dictate that it be a Stark. See how Jaime was named Warden of the East by Robert Baratheon, passing over little Robert Arryn.

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I disagree with the idea that members of House Stark would be named Regent, to rule until Rickon comes of age.

The awkward fact is that each of the Stark children has a claim on the lordship of Winterfell, and likely the North, in their own right.

Succession doesn't always follow iron clad rules. GRRM has spoken on how there is wiggle room and powerplay. Consider how the succession of Rosby is being contested. Each claimant makes an argument. Despite there perhaps even being a strictly-speaking, technically clear heir, other considerations sway the powers. Even force of arms can win the day.

So my feeling is that it is unlikely to be a Stark.

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Jon if he doesn't take Winterfell for himself after hearing Robb's will. Davos, I could see him acting as a father figure for Rickon if not his regent and Lord Magnar hasn't already assumed that role. Manderly could act as regent if he survives Winterfell and Wylis could rule in White Harbor for him.

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Lord Manderly, the Greatjon, Lady Mormont and Robett Glover are all valid options. The Tullys are Seven-worshipping southrons, Jon Snow is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, the Karstarks have turned their cloak not once, but twice, and Osha is a wildling who tried to kill Bran Stark and who will drink your blood from a skull and steal your women.

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the Karstarks have turned their cloak not once, but twice, and Osha is a wildling who tried to kill Bran Stark and who will drink your blood from a skull and steal your women.

Alys is the heir of the Karstarks and married to the Magnar of Thenns. Alys and Magnar are friends with the LC Snow. Osha raised Rickon she is considered to be a family. Hate them or not Tullys are still family.

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the Karstarks have turned their cloak not once, but twice, and Osha is a wildling who tried to kill Bran Stark and who will drink your blood from a skull and steal your women.

Alys is the heir of the Karstarks and married to the Magnar of Thenns. Alys and Magnar are friends with the LC Snow. Osha raised Rickon she is considered to be a family. Hate them or not Tullys are still family.

Harrion is the heir he's just captured at the minute the Karstark 'betrayal' of the Iron Throne was an attempt to get him executed but there's been no word that it succeeded. Manderly will be the regent. He's loyal to the Starks and wants them back in Winterfell but I see his actions as also a powerplay to raise his standing in the north. I bet his granddaughter will be betrothed to Rickon soon after he's found.

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The problem with naming Rickon's Regent is the fact that you want someone strong enough to act on behalf of Rickon's best interests, yet someone who isn't going to be so powerful that he'll be tempted to seize Rickon's birthright from him.

Jon seems like a good candidate. He's emotionally invested in protecting Rickon. He's got the leadership experience and he's a true Northerner in that he's familiar with most of the Northern lords and the way to win to their allegiance. Also, he's old enough to lead a military force; educated enough on military matters and tactics thanks to Ned, and knows how to swing a sword. The fact that Robb named him as heir could also work in his favor, since it's clear that Robb trusted him enough to protect and carry out the interests of House Stark in the event of his death. Other Northern lords might fear that he'll try to usurp Rickon's claim, but it's unlikely Jon would abuse the power entrusted to him. He is Ned Stark's son after all, code of honor ingrained in him.

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I actually think it may be Davos, if he finds the lad and Stannis dies. I know he believes in the 7, but he is the perfect father figure for Rickon, and both have lost family. Ned and Davos are the best fathers in the saga thus far, and Rickon needs a good paternal figure to keep the Starks honorable and noble. I wouldn't mind Osha as some sort of WF servant or officer counseling on the more northern aspects and customs.

manderly must be compensated in some way for his loyalty and oathkeeping in a time when oathkeeping wasn't vogue. i don't think a regency, tho.

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