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snaggle2th

What was Daemon Blackfyre doing before his rebellion?

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I am trying to piece together what things would have looked like in Westeros in the years leading up to the Blackfyre rebellion. I haven't been able to find many references to the 11-year period between Aegon IV's death and the start of the rebellion.

Aegon presented his 'natural' son Daemon with the sword Blackfyre in 182 AL. At the time Daemon was 12, and still legally a bastard, while Aegon's heir Daeron II was already age 29. Two years later, in 184, Aegon legitimizes all of his bastards on his deathbed, cluttering up the line of succession. Daeron inherits the crown at age 31, and at that point, his legal heirs are, in order, his sons Baelor and Maekar (aged 16 and 11ish), followed by that 14-year-old punk Daemon who's got the ancestral Targaryen sword of kings, and finally Bittersteel & Bloodraven. (Daemon's twin sons Aegon & Aemon are born the same year--randy little bugger!)

Fast-forward to 195 AL. Daemon rebels, along with several houses, and according to the wiki's 'Blackfytre Rebellion', "The immediate cause was Daemon Blackfyre's rage over Daeron betrothing his sister Daenerys to Maron Martell, Prince of Dorne". However, according to the wiki's timeline, this marriage was brokered by King Baelor the Blessed, Aegon IV's brother, way back in 170 AL, when Daenerys was only one year old. Although I can see this betrothal being kept secret for some time, even though Aegon's queen was a Martell, 25 years seems like a stretch. Anyway, that's a relatively minor detail I think.

So, back to the period of 184-195. What was Daemon doing during this time? I've never seen any mention of exile. Was he prancing around Westeros, jousting and flashing Blackfyre? If so, Daeron was either remarkably tolerant or remarkably thick. Daemon had several more sons during this period; did he settled down, or did he pine for Aunt Daenerys? Or both? Did Daeron have the sense to restrict his movements, by confining him to Dragonstone, or at least King's Landing, where he would be easier to monitor? Just how was it that this rebellion took so bloody long to happen?

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Baelor the Blessed only brokered the marriage between Myriah Martell and Daeron the Good. It was part of the peace negotiations after the Young Dragon's Conquest of Dorne failed. Dorne did not became part of the Realm until Daeron the Good brokered the marriage between his younger sister, Daenerys, and Prince Maron Martell. That happened during Daeron's II reign, not during Baelor's or Aegon's IV.

As you have already said, Daemon was way too young to rebel when Daeron ascended the Iron Throne. And in fact it seems as if he was not the driving force behind his own rebellion. TMK indicated that Fireball and Bittersteel may have had more to do with the whole thing than Daemon Blackfyre himself. He was a figurehead for everyone who was unhappy with King Daeron II.

TMK also mentions that Daeron sent the Kingsguard to arrest Daemon at the outbreak of the Rebellion. Since there was something going on between Daenerys and Daemon my guess is that Daemon lived at court with his royal half-brother, just as the other Great Bastards apparently were allowed to do (Shiera, Bloodraven, and Bittersteel).

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Danaerys wasn't his aunt, but his half-sister. He still pined for her. He spent his time in the training yard and doing things any lord of his time would do.

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Now, I was given to understand that everything in the wiki is correct, because everyone can write whatever they want... I am disillunsioned.

Baelor the Blessed only brokered the marriage between Myriah Martell and Daeron the Good. It was part of the peace negotiations after the Young Dragon's Conquest of Dorne failed. Dorne did not became part of the Realm until Daeron the Good brokered the marriage between his younger sister, Daenerys, and Prince Maron Martell. That happened during Daeron's II reign, not during Baelor's or Aegon's IV.

At any rate, that did seem weird. The timeline needs to be fixed:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/170_AL#Year_170_after_Aegon.27s_Landing

Danaerys wasn't his aunt, but his half-sister.

Yeah, apparently that was just a matter of me reading the family tree incorrectly. Incest is complicated.

As you have already said, Daemon was way too young to rebel when Daeron ascended the Iron Throne. And in fact it seems as if he was not the driving force behind his own rebellion. TMK indicated that Fireball and Bittersteel may have had more to do with the whole thing than Daemon Blackfyre himself. He was a figurehead for everyone who was unhappy with King Daeron II.

TMK also mentions that Daeron sent the Kingsguard to arrest Daemon at the outbreak of the Rebellion. Since there was something going on between Daenerys and Daemon my guess is that Daemon lived at court with his royal half-brother, just as the other Great Bastards apparently were allowed to do (Shiera, Bloodraven, and Bittersteel).

That's some good perspective, thanks. I know that Fireball was passed over for the Kingsguard. Any idea why Bittersteel was disgruntled? (Probably it was the nickname.) Bittersteel's mother was a Bracken, and Bloodraven was a Blackwood, and those two families hate each other, so that explains their enmity, but did BS (heh) get shafted in some other way? WAIT--Wiki says Shiera. Mystery solved.

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As you have already said, Daemon was way too young to rebel when Daeron ascended the Iron Throne. And in fact it seems as if he was not the driving force behind his own rebellion. TMK indicated that Fireball and Bittersteel may have had more to do with the whole thing than Daemon Blackfyre himself. He was a figurehead for everyone who was unhappy with King Daeron II.

TMK also mentions that Daeron sent the Kingsguard to arrest Daemon at the outbreak of the Rebellion. Since there was something going on between Daenerys and Daemon my guess is that Daemon lived at court with his royal half-brother, just as the other Great Bastards apparently were allowed to do (Shiera, Bloodraven, and Bittersteel).

Daemon was already married and had four sons, two of which were adults before the rebellion. He probably spent his early years training and being educated, but I think the OP asks about his adult life (there were many years in between Daenerys' marriage, his own marriage, and the rebellion).

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Daemon was already married and had four sons, two of which were adults before the rebellion.

Actually Daemon had seven trueborn sons and an unspecified number of daughters at the time of his death. Since he died in the Rebellion which only lasted a year, he must have had all of these children when the rebellion started.

His oldest 2 sons the twins Aegon and Aemon were only 12 when they were killed on the Redgrass Field, Daemon II was 7 at the time.

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We don't know anything about Daemon's adult life (or his life as a youth despite the fact that he apparently showed great promise as a squire/knight - which is way Aegon IV eventually acknowledged him and gave him Blackfyre).

We don't know whom he married, and how Princess Daenerys fit into this (did they fell in love after or before Daemon's marriage?). We don't even know if his wife was another Targaryen princess. Which could explain why his sons kept the Targaryen looks - my guess is that not only Daemon II and his older brothers did, but the others as well. I very much doubt that Bittersteel ever hoped to put a, say, brown-haired Blackfyre on the Iron Throne.

There has been speculation that the brother Bloodraven loved (he mentions he had a brother he loved) was in fact not Daeron but Daemon, and that he ended killing him because he considered him a traitor. Anyway, we can only guess that Daeron II let all, or at least most of his highborn half-brothers live at court after he ascended the Iron Throne. Only this could enable Daemon to fell in love with Daeron's sister, or to become popular and well-known enough across the Realm to finally challenge Daeron's claim to the Iron Throne.

We have also still no idea how and when Daemon's mother, Princess Daena Targaryen died, if she lived to see the outbreak of the Rebellion.

TSS and TMK discussed the questions why anyone should want to support a pretender who challenges the rightful king. TSS showed us Ser Eustace Osgrey, who chose to back Daemon due to his good looks and his prowess as a warrior, and, of course, because he could profit from the new king. TMK showed us how lords with a grudge and ambition used Daemon II as a figurehead/puppet to their advantage. And the information we got about the first Rebellion strongly indicates that not only Daemon II fell victim to the machinations of the likes of Gormon Peake, but Daemon I as well. The people who nudged him to claim the crown were Fireball and Bittersteel. I don't say Daemon I did not want to be king, but I'm not so sure if he himself had the original idea, or if the people surrounding him drove him into that direction.

We can compare Daemon I to Renly in that capacity I think. He did not refuse the idea to be king when it was presented to him, but he would not have claimed the Iron Throne all by himself (i.e. Renly would have never tried to seize the Iron Throne had not Loras and Mace delivered the whole Reach to him).

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We can compare Daemon I to Renly in that capacity I think. He did not refuse the idea to be king when it was presented to him, but he would not have claimed the Iron Throne all by himself (i.e. Renly would have never tried to seize the Iron Throne had not Loras and Mace delivered the whole Reach to him).

In the books Renly seem to be more a mastermind, or at least a driving force, than in the films. He first tried to have Margarey married to Robert (he would have to get rid of Cersei, of course), later he tried to ally himself with Ned to control Joffrey as regent and Hand, and later he cooked his plan to crown himself with Tyrell support.

Olenna opposed the participation of house Tyrell in Renly's plans, and she probably had Wyllas, Garlan and Margarey, the most intelligent of her grandspawn, on her side, but Renly and Loras convinced Mace to support Renly's claim.

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We don't know really whether the whole Margaery thing was Renly's plan. It could have been Loras's brainchild. In fact, since this whole idea would have caused major trouble if it had worked (Robert divorcing Cersei and remarrying would have not only been a great scandal but would have offended the Lannisters very much - and maybe the Faith as well!), I'm not so sure if that idea was cooked up by a 'mastermind'.

Renly had little to gain from this scheme for himself. It would only have satisfied Tyrell ambition, more precisely Mace's ambition to put his own grandson on the Iron Throne. My guess is this was Mace's/Loras's idea.

Later on, the deciding input which made Renly crown himself most likely also came from Mace and Loras. When Robert was dying, Renly tried to get Ned to realize how to prevent Cersei from seizing the Regency. Nothing in the book indicates that he wanted to crown himself eventually at this point. I see Renly's bid for the Iron Throne to be the outcome of a long discussion (including much wine!) with Mace at Highgarden after Renly and Loras arrived there.

The fact that Renly did not even try to talk this through with Stannis (he actually thought his older brother would back his claim against the Lannisters in ACoK) really seems to indicate that Renly did not exactly look at this whole thing from all possible angles. He might have become a better king than Robert, but not a really great king. And compared to Daeron the Good Daemon Blackfyre would have been a rather worse king I assume. The man is not called 'the Good' due to his good looks...

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