The Princess and the Queen [SPOILERS]

[Zupoleon]

Is feeding people to dragons, which always eat their meat cooked, considered humane?

I must have missed that part. Just saw the Red Viper dialed up to 11 comparison...

ETA: My point still stands though. I don't think too many people would argue that the Red Viper and Joffrey were similar in many ways. The Red Viper is a lot of things, but cruel and crazy (Joffrey's main attributes) wouldn't be the first words used to describe him...

[Ser Alex Tully]

Maybe another way to describe him is that he's the Red Viper of the Targaryens, dialled up to 11.

So the guy is a sexgod with more bastards then the sand snakes(8) he sounds like a pro

[Lord Varys]

This may add a lot of spice to this era. I really would like to see more about that. It will be interesting to see whether this whole thing between him and Rhaenyra is love match, or merely a political marriage. Rhaenyra may profit greatly from her husband's reputation. On the other hand, if this guy shares the character of the Red Viper, he may not care all that much about subtlety or political intrigue. He could have spent his youth on the back of his dragon trying to cross the world or something like that. Wreaking havoc with his dragon in Essos. The possibilities are endless.

But I'm still inclined to believe that he is going to be the guy who continues the war after Rhaenyra's death and ends up killing Aegon II.

[Gurkhal]

I have a little question. Given that Rhaenyra's mother was an Arryn is there any chance that we might get to see some Arryns make an entrence? So far I can't recall that there has been a single Arryn, except for Sweetrobin but I don't count him, who have been in the series and I'm dying to see some people from this House.

[Lord Varys]

I'd be surprised if we don't see some Arryns take action during the Dance on Rhaenyra's side, but since we have little actual knowledge about the topic of 'The Princess and the Queen' despite the fact that it will feature events leading to the Dance of the Dragons, I'm not sure if we are going to see any Arryns in this story. Rhaenyra's mother is long dead during this time. That is, if things stand, and Viserys I had not multiple wives at the same time. He could have taken his Hightower queen after his original wife had given him only stillborns beside Rhaenyra. But as things stand right now, he took only a second wife after Rhaenyra's mother died.

Ran has already confirmed that the stuff from the RPG book about Rhaenyra's first husband being Lord Lyonel Strong of Harrenhal has been changed (which would have made the Strongs the principal supporters of Rhaenyra during the Dance, especially since Rhaenyra had three adult sons from Lord Lyonel in that concept). But the enigmatic Über-Targaryen still remains only Rhaenyra's second husband, so she has been married twice and there is more than enough space for her elder sons and their kin, I guess.

About Viserys's I Arryn queen we do know next to nothing, but Ran also once confirmed that at least one of Viserys's queens had also Targaryen ancestors, which could make either some of the Arryns or some of the Hightowers during this era partial Targaryens. We don't know yet which house has been 'blessed' with dragon blood. But GRRM could have changed all that during the writing process that led to 'The Princess and the Queen'.

Both the Arryns and the Hightowers are among the noble houses which could have been deemed worthy to get a (spare) Targaryen bride during the early years. They are very ancient and noble, they did offer little to no resistance during the Conquest. The Starks do also share those qualities. I'd be very surprised if Jaehaerys and Alysanne did not marry at least one of their children/siblings/cousins to a Stark. I don't see the whole court including the dragons travel to Winterfell for anything else but a marriage.

[Arataniello]

Maybe another way to describe him is that he's the Red Viper of the Targaryens, dialled up to 11.

obl Spinal Tap reference - "it goes to 11".

On Wert's site it describes GRRM's contribution to Dangerous Women as 'a narrative history of the Dance of the Dragons'. Is this confirmed?. Or is the information being recast in the format of a short story or novella?

[History of Westeros]

I have a little question. Given that Rhaenyra's mother was an Arryn is there any chance that we might get to see some Arryns make an entrence? So far I can't recall that there has been a single Arryn, except for Sweetrobin but I don't count him, who have been in the series and I'm dying to see some people from this House.

I made a post earlier hoping for the same thing. The Vale is by far the kingdom we have the least history/backstory for. I lust for this knowledge!

[History of Westeros]

Both the Arryns and the Hightowers are among the noble houses which could have been deemed worthy to get a (spare) Targaryen bride during the early years. They are very ancient and noble, they did offer little to no resistance during the Conquest. The Starks do also share those qualities. I'd be very surprised if Jaehaerys and Alysanne did not marry at least one of their children/siblings/cousins to a Stark. I don't see the whole court including the dragons travel to Winterfell for anything else but a marriage.

That's a good point. I believe all we know is that they had "matters to discuss". Perhaps the marriage contract was initially agreed upon in principal, but there was something else that needed to be worked out that held up the process. This delay gave Alysanne time to go visit the Night's Watch. I imagine she would've wanted to be with her husband during the initial proceedings, as a marriage would likely be important to her. But she could easily have gotten bored with the minutiae.

I had forgotten that Rhaenyra's mother was likely dead, so the chances of seeing some important Arryn's definitely dropped a bit. On the other hand, they may have secured some influence in court through other means. Perhaps an Arryn or two were appointed positions of note at court.

[Lord Godric]

I'm excited for this, but I feel like my knowledge of the importance of this story isn't up to par with most others posting in this forum. Yes, I know the importance of the Dance of the Dragons, but the particular characters involved I remember very little about. I hope this novella is as accessible as the D&E stories are even though its been plucked out of a larger book on the history if Westeros.

As for the She-Wolves of Winterfell, Martin made it seem like that's not even on the horizon. The published stories he said will be put into one collection, but there's no mention of the new story. A bit disappointing.

[Lord Varys]

We do know next to nothing about pretty much all the characters during the Dance. There is a bit of namedropping throughout the books, but that's it. From the books we know about Viserys I, Rhaenyra, her dragon, Aegon II, and his younger brother Prince Aemond who rode Vhagar during the Dance. Then there are the Kingsguard members Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, Ser Criston Cole, the Lord Commander of Viserys's Kingsguard, and Grand Maester Gerardys (who was fed to the dragons by Aegon II).

Any stories set in that particular era will create new characters, and not explore people we already know anything about. What we know - or believe to know - about the background of the Dance (i.e. everything about Viserys's two wives) comes from a mail GRRM send to Amoka for portrayal of Rhaenyra Targaryen.

As to the story itself: GRRM explained that 'history is always 'his story''. My guess is that 'The Princess and the Queen' is not going to be a short story/novella like the Dunk & Egg stories, but rather a long tale by an eyewitness who remembers the events that led to the Dance of the Dragons. This might make the whole thing less authentic since we might not be all that close to the actual events the narrator tells us. Perhaps the 'story' will be told from the POV of Viserys's I dwarf jester Mushroom GRRM mentioned on his Not a Blog. The guy apparently depicts Rhaenyra's POV during the Dance. At least that's what I deduced from GRRM's remarks that Mushroom challenges the orthodox Citadel opinion that somebody (most likely Viserys I) 'died in his sleep'. Mushroom claims this person has been poisoned.

[Bushido]

I have to ask here,no idea where else - what does latest GRRM's contract with HBO mean for ASoIaF? WoIaF as well?

[DaveSumm]

I have to ask here,no idea where else - what does latest GRRM's contract with HBO mean for ASoIaF? WoIaF as well?

My guess is nothing. I'd be very surprised if GRRM, after so much talk of needing to say no once in a while, would agree to anything that would delay tWoW at all. It's probably just that his contract as executive producer for the show needed renewing anyway, so they thought what the hell, let's flesh it out in case we fancy adapting any if his other works.

Re: the changing of Rhaenyra's first husband: what exactly was the source for Lyonel Strong being her husband? I'm assuming it can't be the books, as this would mean tPatQ and aSoIaF aren't consistent.......which would be weird.

[Ran]

It was GRRM's original conception of the relationship as revealed in the Game of Thrones RPG, in which he provided some notes (directly in some cases, indirectly -- through Linda and I -- in others). But as he wrote about the run up to the Dance, he came up with a better idea.

[Arataniello]

If Lyonel Strong is no longer her first husband, does this also change the three sons that Rhaenyra and Strong had together, all of whom died at some point before or during Dance of the Dragons?

To clarify - does Rhaenyra still have three sons with her first husband, before marrying the new uber-Targ and having two further sons, Aegon and Viserys.

[Ran]

Yes and no. ;)

[DaveSumm]

It was GRRM's original conception of the relationship as revealed in the Game of Thrones RPG, in which he provided some notes (directly in some cases, indirectly -- through Linda and I -- in others). But as he wrote about the run up to the Dance, he came up with a better idea.

Ah, thanks Ran. I guess this is the 'semi-canon source' that the wiki refers to so often.

[Patrick Tully]

Ran do you know why the U.S. paperback of ADWD has been postponed 4 times?

Is it because the hardcover edition is still selling well?

Sorry for the delayed response. I asked GRRM in August when he posted about the ADwD hardcover's year plus status on the NYT Bestseller list:

Aug. 12th, 2012 04:58 pm (local)

Congratulations

I do wonder if this is why the US paperback was pushed back again to March 2013? Is that the reason, or was there an issue with the preview chapter?

Aug. 12th, 2012 05:21 pm (local)

Re: Congratulations

No issue with the preview chapter.

Yes, this was a big part of the reason. Booksellers deluged Bantam with requests to delay the mass market, since the hardcover is still selling so strongly.

And we do listen to our booksellers. (Mostly)

[Patrick Tully]

...As for the She-Wolves of Winterfell, Martin made it seem like that's not even on the horizon. The published stories he said will be put into one collection, but there's no mention of the new story. A bit disappointing.

Whenever it is completed and finds a home in an anthology, it can't be reprinted for the first year to protect the exclusivity of the anthology. Since it has been pushed back to who knows when, this will keep the collected book from being delayed even longer. It would be nice if he skipped the anthology route and added it to the collected book as an exclusive, but I'm not holding my breath for that. :(

[Bushido]

uber-Targ

Über-Targ is a good choice :D

[DaveSumm]

I for one have zero interest in an anthology that collates an unfinished series. Just me.