Kalbear Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 It's funny because he takes a long time to write books now.GOD DAMNIT BEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 OK, I actually LOLed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 First Take showing us what is important leading up to the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 First Take showing us what is important leading up to the Super Bowl.This is really incredible.I realize that media always drives certain narratives, but I cannot recall anything like this obsession w/ Tebow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 This is really incredible.I realize that media always drives certain narratives, but I cannot recall anything like this obsession w/ Tebow.It's just ESPN. Also, Peyton Manning and his impressive physique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hilarious. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the zone read/spread offense essentially what John Fox was running anyway? I mean, that was certainly an offense built around Tebow's strengths. And anyone who thinks that Tebow could just come in and do what Kaep or Wilson or Griffin did is fooling themselves. Tebow lacks two absolutely essential elements that make the zone read really dangerous: 1. you need speed in order to quickly capitalize when one player overcommits to stopping the run. Power can substitute to a limited extent, but that means taking lots of big shots on your quarterback. 2. you need great accuracy on intermediate routes. The linebackers will cheat in to stop a running quarterback, which means that the opening between the linebackers and safeties will be bigger than normal. But if you can't hit these routes quickly and accurately, this doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 I refuse to talk about Tebow on the grounds that it's FUCKING STUPID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Skip Bayless must get paid every time he says Tebow.. He said the Jets would have easily made the playoffs if they made Tebow their starter from week 5 onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I refuse to talk about anything Skip Bayless says on the grounds that it's FUCKING STUPID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 My bad, I guess I just take exception to the idea that what Wilson/Kap/Griffin are doing is something that other guys could easily be plugged in to. If there were other guys who could do this, other teams would do just that. Three in two years is just coincidence. And of the three, the one I am least sold on is Kapernick, just because that Niners O line is so good I think that plugging anyone in there is like a dream scenario. Not that he hasn't looked good, but I think he has a natural advantage over Griffin/Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 The secret to running the spread option is not to have a running back who can throw. It's having a good qb with an accurate deep pass who can also threaten the run. Tebow - and most college qbs - don't have the ability to threaten downfield. Without that its easy to beat the spread option - you simply stack the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 :agree: This is the sadness of no like button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempra Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 My bad, I guess I just take exception to the idea that what Wilson/Kap/Griffin are doing is something that other guys could easily be plugged in to. If there were other guys who could do this, other teams would do just that. Three in two years is just coincidence. And of the three, the one I am least sold on is Kapernick, just because that Niners O line is so good I think that plugging anyone in there is like a dream scenario. Not that he hasn't looked good, but I think he has a natural advantage over Griffin/Wilson.Do you think Griffin or Wilson are fundamentally more talented than Kaep? Obviously the Niners have a better team, which is why they are going to the Super Bowl. Nonetheless, I don't see any clear advantage talent-wise that Griffin or Wilson have over Kaep. In fact, Kaep's ability to play well under pressure makes him an easy choice, for me, to differentiate the three. Of course this could change down the road, but until then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Do you fundamentally think Griffin or Wilson are more talented than Kaep? Obviously the Niners have a better team, which is why they are going to the Super Bowl. Nonetheless, I don't see any clear advantage talent-wise that Griffin or Wilson have over Kaep. In fact, Kaep's ability to play well under pressure makes him an easy choice, for me, to differentiate the three. Of course this could change down the road, but until then...Difficult to judge any player outside of the context of their team. However, I think that the offense around Kaepernick is one in which it would be easier to succeed than either Wilson or Griffin. He is playing behind probably the best O line in the league, and his receivers are on a whole better than what WIlson or Griffin were playing with. I don't really see why you would say that Griffin or Wilson haven't played well under pressure. Griffin knew that he needed to go 7-0 after the bye in order to secure a playoff spot for the Redskins. Wilson played well late in games virtually all year, and led the Seahawks back from down 20-0 to take the lead on the road in the playoffs. Unless you define pressure as "championship games or later" then both have been exceptional for rookies. And if you asked me straight up, yes, I do think that Kaep is the least talented of the three, and I think that if put in the lineup for Seattle or Washington, he would struggle more than either Wilson or Griffin did. Nonetheless, they have all been exceptional. It's entirely possible that in a few years all four of them (Luck added here) will be top 10 quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempra Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Difficult to judge any player outside of the context of their team. However, I think that the offense around Kaepernick is one in which it would be easier to succeed than either Wilson or Griffin. He is playing behind probably the best O line in the league, and his receivers are on a whole better than what WIlson or Griffin were playing with. I don't really see why you would say that Griffin or Wilson haven't played well under pressure. Griffin knew that he needed to go 7-0 after the bye in order to secure a playoff spot for the Redskins. Wilson played well late in games virtually all year, and led the Seahawks back from down 20-0 to take the lead on the road in the playoffs. Unless you define pressure as "championship games or later" then both have been exceptional for rookies. And if you asked me straight up, yes, I do think that Kaep is the least talented of the three, and I think that if put in the lineup for Seattle or Washington, he would struggle more than either Wilson or Griffin did. Nonetheless, they have all been exceptional. It's entirely possible that in a few years all four of them (Luck added here) will be top 10 quarterbacks.There has been comparatively little pressure on Griffin and Wilson (except for the wild card game). Griffin had to go 7-0 to make the playoffs? Big whoop. No one expected him to. Don't get me wrong, I think Griffin is an exceptional QB but no one expects much from rookies. That he exceeded all expectations speaks more to his talent than his ability to handle pressure. Same with Wilson, mostly, except he showed tremendous poise and fortitude in the wild card game. For Kaep, on the other hand, every game has been a referendum on him (and Harbaugh) since he replaced, statistically, one of the best QBs in the league under very unusual circumstances. The divisional round was huge since everyone thought Rodgers and the Packers would roll over the Niners. Then, obviously, the championship round was a huge test coming back 17-0. Edge goes to Kaep.As for outright talent, I don't see Griffin or Wilson having much, if any, edge over Kaep. Both Wilson and Kaep are better runners than Griffin because they avoid hits. Of the 183 yards Kaep ran against the Pack, 170ish were untouched. If Griffin has an advantage anywhere it is in passing ability and I think it is negligible at best and too soon to really compare Kaep to the others. Kaep had to jump in mid-season and did not have the same preparation as either Griffin or Wilson. While he had other benefits (a better team) his fundamentals (accuracy, arm strength, etc) are no worse than the other two. I think after next season we will have a more accurate picture of everyone's ability after everyone has had time to settle in, assuming Griffin can return to form after his injury. And avoids the sophomore slump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Do you think Griffin or Wilson are fundamentally more talented than Kaep?I do, yes. Both of them are much better pure pocket passers. Both are a lot more accurate. And both have a better deep ball. Wilson in particular is significantly better at reading defenses and has better pocket presence.I think Kaep is a better runner than either of them. I don't think his QB skills are the best.Kaep had to jump in mid-season and did not have the same preparation as either Griffin or Wilson.What? he's been in the system for two years. That's significantly better than what Wilson or Griffin had. Wilson in particular; he wasn't even named the starter and didn't get to play with the first string regularly until the 4th week of the preseason this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempra Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I do, yes. Both of them are much better pure pocket passers. Both are a lot more accurate. And both have a better deep ball. Wilson in particular is significantly better at reading defenses and has better pocket presence.I think Kaep is a better runner than either of them. I don't think his QB skills are the best.Disagree that both are "a lot more" accurate or have a better deep ball.. Agree that Kaep is weakest at reading defenses, though, I will temporarily chalk that up to relative inexperience. Kaep has improved quite a bit on the part few weeks.What? he's been in the system for two years. That's significantly better than what Wilson or Griffin had. Wilson in particular; he wasn't even named the starter and didn't get to play with the first string regularly until the 4th week of the preseason this year. Wilson and Griffin had a full season training as the starting QB. Kaep didn't get that until week 11, at which point the niners' offense fundamentally changed. Having the extra year on the team is somewhat of a benefit but far less than you make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 That he exceeded all expectations speaks more to his talent than his ability to handle pressure. I think you have to take a pretty strange definition of "handling pressure" to say that Wilson or Griffin have not proven themselves beautifully under pressure this season. Saying that Griffin's run in the second half of the season wasn't full of pressure is laughable. Kaep had to jump in mid-season and did not have the same preparation as either Griffin or Wilson. Kaep had a season and a half to ride the bench and get ready to succeed. A luxury neither Seattle nor Washington could afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempra Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think you have to take a pretty strange definition of "handling pressure" to say that Wilson or Griffin have not proven themselves beautifully under pressure this season. Saying that Griffin's run in the second half of the season wasn't full of pressure is laughable. No, I just don't think Griffin was under a whole lot of pressure when his coach wrote off the remainder of the season in early November. Obviously the pressure grew as the season went forward and culminated with the season finale against Dallas. But do you honestly believe he was under the microscope like Kaep? No fucking way. Not even close. Kaep had a season and a half to ride the bench and get ready to succeed. A luxury neither Seattle nor Washington could afford.See my response to Kal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Wilson and Griffin had a full season training as the starting QB. Kaep didn't get that until week 11, at which point the niners' offense fundamentally changed. Having the extra year on the team is somewhat of a benefit but far less than you make it out to be.It fundamentally changed into the offense he ran at University. It's not like it became super complicated and was completely outside his wheelhouse.Not to mention that Wilson and Griffin had 10 games more of tape on them allowing for defenses to scheme better than the unknown Kaepernick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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