niamh Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 To keep off-topic ...the wall is there for the Others. It's my belief that the thers are going to be dealt with permanently before the book is finished. There is no way under the sun the night watch can hold it in its present state, no way it will suddenly get the thousands of recruits it needs, and so, either Westeros will be swallowed by the Others, either the Others will be killed off for good. Which negates the need for a night watch in the future, either way Welcome SF ... your theory is the most famous and debated of them all! fair play to have figured it out, I wouldn't have in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemrion Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Oh plese stop with the incest theories.We have Cersei and Jaime,thats more then enough.Besides,although there sure was love between Ned and Lyanna,I doubt they were screwing each other. Actually we had Jaime and Cersei, Oberyn and Elia, Loras and Margaery with the incest theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shewoman Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 The only incest we have canon for is Cersei and Jaime. And with all the time Ned spends thinking negatively about their situation in his POVs (as opposed to someone else's POVs), it's a bit much for him never to have thought "Well, there was that one time . . . ." Plus, if Lyanna had recently given birth when Ned found her (she was in a bloody bed/bed of blood, used elsewhere as an image of childbed), she must have been about a year pregnant when her child was born if it was Ned's. But Jon is younger than Robb, and Robb was conceived after the war began (on Ned and Catelyn's wedding night). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzlebane Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Which is the new idea? Technically neither. I was being sarcastic. But that doesn't mean that they aren't good ideas, both are. As stated, R+L=J is the most popular/most debated subject on the board and the Unsullied on the Wall make a lot of sense. As I said, welcome to the board, but now I'll say: bugger off. You haven't finished SOS yet!!! Go away!!! Finish the books before we ruin them for you! Then come back, ready to debate and discuss. Seriously. We will ruin them for you if you don't finish them first. We get very careless about our spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgernon Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 There is no way under the sun the night watch can hold it in its present state, no way it will suddenly get the thousands of recruits it needs, and so, either Westeros will be swallowed by the Others, either the Others will be killed off for good. Which negates the need for a night watch in the future, either way why do you think the other's will be killed off for good? they weren't at the end of the first "long night" and that seems far too simple and cliched for a GRRM ending. and yes do as Ser Bazzlebane suggests and stay away from the boards until you are done reading the books . . . i assure you that you will thank yourself later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Timeline doesn't work for N+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niamh Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 why do you think the other's will be killed off for good? they weren't at the end of the first "long night" and that seems far too simple and cliched for a GRRM ending. Well the night's watch is pretty much done right now, and if the wall is breached, who has the skills to rebuild it nowadays? Bran is the key, IMO, same as Frodo in LOTR, who did what Isildur and a bunch of high elves could not; terminate Sauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Verb of Nouns Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Timeline doesn't work for N+L=J. Yeah, now that I think about it, that is pretty damn ridiculous. Also, before I came here, I had not once considered the possibilities of a torrid affair between Rhaegar and Lyanna. And now that I think about it, I'm slapping my forehead for not seeing that before. So now I'm on board with that, just because it would be damn cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Future Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 How much older is Robb supposed to be than Jon? Being so close I don't think anyone would debate his age when Ned brought him home to Winterfell. Ned left right after getting Catelyn with child... how long was he supposed to have been gone? Jon could be the same age or even a little older than Robb and it would and could go unnoticed. R+L=J s not a far fetched idea, I think saying it was far fetched might only have been said to throw people off of the plot to not spoil it. Just an idea though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 How much older is Robb supposed to be than Jon? Here is a link to a discussion on this topic: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=7013&hl=robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpygoat Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I think Cat just assumes Jon's younger because Ned brought him up north from the south - meaning he probably slept with another woman while at war, meaning he did it after bedding Cat. Automatically making Jon younger than Robb. If Jon is Ned's bastard, that is. Otherwise, if Jon is Rhaegar's, he's anywhere from three months older to younger, as I see it. That's about the window of time Rhaegar had with Lyanna, I think - about three months time for Lyanna to run off, for the Starks to find out Rhaegar's involvement, for Brandon to reach King's Landing, for Rickard to reach King's Landing, and for Ned to finally bed Cat. Then roughly three months time for information about what's going on to reach Rhaegar's ears and finally head north again. I'm inclined to say it's closer to two months, to a month and a half, but three's a good, solid number, I think. And stray past, say, three months, and I think the age difference becomes more notable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfox Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 What if Jon Snow is truly the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen and Ned DID lie for once in his honest life, Stop, yes this have been said before. And heehee, I dont think Ned even lied about Jon. remember, Ned said: "he[jon] is my blood". But here is the trick here, by "my blood" meant that someone is related to you, he can be a son or can be an uncle. And if Jon is Lyanna's son, he is still Ned's "blood". after all, Ned never said Jon is his son. So there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shewoman Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Grumpygoat, I think 3 months is too long. I believe Brandon was on his way to Riverrun for his wedding when he (how?) heard that Lyanna was missing and suspected Rhaegar (because he made her Queen of Love and Beauty at Harrenhal? Some other reason?). He called Rhaegar out, Aerys called Rickard and the fathers of Brandon's squires, murder murder murder, Jon Arry refuses to give up Ned and Robert and war, uh, good God y'all, what is it good for. Ned marries Catelyn after the war has started at the same time Jon A. marries Lysa--these marriages cement anti-Targaryen alliances, so things are rushed through. Jon [edit: ROBB] is conceived on their wedding night. IF Lyanna had given birth shortly before Ned found her, that child must have been conceived after the war (which lasted a tad over a year, I believe) began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niamh Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Jon is conceived on their wedding night. Catelyn would love to hear that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blackfish Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 After seeing the latest thread on the never-ending topic, I figure its a good question to ask. So how far back does this theory go? I'm guessing someone theorized it after reading A Game of Thrones. But who thought to post it first? Anyone remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgernon Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 that was definitely way before my time, but I think the answer would be interesting to find out . . . is anyone around still that was active back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondarrion Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 People drew the conclusion independently. Who proposed it first? Beats me. But I thought of it separate from this board, and others have posted that they did as well. While the theory gets mentioned a lot on this board, it certainly wasn't originated here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 It strikes me as the sort of thing that a lot of people could have thought up on their own while reading the series. A few have commented that it came to them partway through their read of AGOT, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were literally hundreds or even thousands of people who thought it up when the first book came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 If I had to guess, I would say Markus. You could also guess the other old-timers like Ran, KAH, and Revanshe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Verb of Nouns Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Hopefully the first person to think of it was Mr. Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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