Jump to content

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread


Stark Future

Recommended Posts

Sorry :(

But seriously, I was getting worried that a veteran poster/lurker who's seen this topic come up every day for the last 5 years might suddenly snap and be responsible for death and destruction on a scale hitherto unimagined. Do we really want to be responsible for that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Werthead. And you were wise to make this move - I for one was nearing the point where I'd snap and rip some unfortunate newbies' heads off. :D

If people invested as much time and effort in solving global warming, world conflict, the bermuda triangle, who shot JFK and whether Jesus Christ really did marry and has sprogs in the south of France as they did in trying to second guess Jon's parentage, the world would be a marvellous place....... ;)

Indeed. But where would the fun be in that? We're discussing R+L=J here, not mere problems and mysteries that affect or intrigue millions or billions of people in real life. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think R+L=J. Jon then killed JFK and Asmodean before adopting the alias 'Deep Throat' and ratting out Nixon.

Maybe I missed it, but will he or won't he rescue Moiraine from the Tower of Genji? I think she is alive because of the vision Bran had of her jewel being plucked from a fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If people invested as much time and effort in solving global warming, world conflict, the bermuda triangle, who shot JFK and whether Jesus Christ really did marry and has sprogs in the south of France as they did in trying to second guess Jon's parentage, the world would be a marvellous place....... ;)

They do... and it is. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think R+L=J. Jon then killed JFK and Asmodean before adopting the alias 'Deep Throat' and ratting out Nixon.

Thanks for evacuating the R+LLLLLovesong to this monumental sideline.

I saw you have already collected a nice number of thanks , but in this case you cannot be thanked enough! :bow:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep telling people, telling people, and telling people, but no one will listen. Honestly, the truth is right there for everyone to see if they just consider the facts and think a little. :D

Artanaro

I stand with you, Artanaro! I hate how everyone takes R+L=J as the absolute canon truth when it is not. It has not been confirmed, yet people come out with threads like "How will Jon find out he's a Targ?" and "What will Dany do when she learns Jon's the rightful king?". Garrrrr. That irritates me to no end. It is a single possibility out of several and personally, I hope it's not true although I won't make a big stink if it is. Personally I think N+A=J is a fascinating possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I missed it, but will he or won't he rescue Moiraine from the Tower of Genji? I think she is alive because of the vision Bran had of her jewel being plucked from a fire.

No Randyll Tarly will do that, shortly after he discovers Atlantis and finds out what Victoria's secret is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:D

Indeed. But where would the fun be in that? We're discussing R+L=J here, not mere problems and mysteries that affect or intrigue millions or billions of people in real life. ;)

I'm hurt, the R+L=J question is of vast international importance.....

Scene: West Wing style Press Conference. President Bush putting on his best - 'Take Me seriously' presidential face (ala 24)

Young pushy reporter from Westeros News:

So Mr President, in your opionion, do the speculations of Jon Snow's parents being the assasinated Prince Rheagar and abducted Lyanna Stark in anyway re-direct American policy towards the Sunset Lands and do you in anyway envisage an agressive stance against reports of weapons of mass destruction deployed by Daenarys Targaryen?

And his reply would be............?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but he can't propose it as a theory, for him, it would be a fiat.

don't see why. On the Tim Powers mailing list, Tim regularly proposes theories about his own works, and speculates on why he had certain characters do certain things. He is also open to suggestion and being overruled by readers, which is one of the fun things about corresponding with him. (And he doesn't reread his own books once they are published, so often he is trying to discuss things he wrote 10 or 20 years ago with little recollection of them).

Anyway, I am proposing a new crackpot theory, based on my current reread of AGoT:

I've just reread the Arya chapter in King's Landing (sorry, no page refs at hand) where Ned is telling her about how she reminds him of Lyanna. Who was a little bit wild. And Brandon who was a lot wild.

I therefore submit that Jon is Brandon's son. And the TRUE heir of Winterfell. Ned no doubt felt that if he had to marry Brandon's skanky betrothed, despite having feelings for Ashara, then dammit! His own son was going to inherit, not Brandon's.

You could also say that it was Brandon & Lyanna, which is why she decided to run away, and also why he got so pissed and went to the king. He was feeling jealous and possessive that Lyanna left.

Or it could be any other female, I don't care at all really. As previously mentioned, Jon could be a bit older than Robb, who knows? Catelyn wouldn't if the date was fudged a bit.

And THAT is why Jon looks more like a Stark than any of the other children except Arya (who takes after her father in appearance, and aunt and uncle in nature), and why Ned says Jon is his blood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brandon died some time before the war started. Ned and Catelyn were married a couple of months into the war and conceived Jon on their wedding night. I don't think Brandon's in contention.

Furthermore, if he were Jon's father, there'd be no reason to keep that a secret. As various people in the series say, there's nothing unusual in someone siring a child on another woman during war when they're away from home for extended periods. (What's odd about Ned and Jon is that Ned is raising him and keeps his mother's identity secret.) Why drive a wedge between himself and Catelyn and deprive Jon of the knowledge of his true parentage when the only person/people the truth could hurt are dead?

I don't think we're going to find that a Stark son sired a child by Lyanna. Ned's reaction to the Lannister incest is mild disgust fueled largely by his loyalty to Robert; it's not extreme enough to suggest hatred of a behavior he denies in himself, nor is it mild enough to indicate that incest is no big deal. There's no hint that incest has any personal relevance to him or his family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh just spoil all my fun shewoman!

I don't care how the twist and convolutions get there, I think Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna is *boring*!!! Barely a step up from any other fantasy stableboy who is really the son of a king. even if there is no 'true king' any more in westeros.

at least Robin Hobb makes it blatant and works around it in the Farseer Trilogy. Other than that you have Rand al'thor (WoT), Simon (M,S,T), Garion (Belgariad) etc. Even Aragorn (LotR) if you want to look at it that way, although he knows very well who he is and what he has to do.

My preference is for Jon to be Ned's son, and Ned is imperfect like everyone else. Failing that, as everyone who is in favour of 'twoo wuv' always cites Lyanna's wildness as the reason she allegedly willingly ran away with Rhaegar, why not look at Brandon's wildness? Which was apparently a much deeper / wider / more noticable streak than Lyanna's. (According to Ned anyway)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sorry if these quotes been used before: (Page 186 AGOT UK Paper Back)

"Ah, Arya. You have the wildness in you, child. 'The Wolf Blood' my father

used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it and my brother brandon more

than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave."

this to me seems to support L + R = J as what could she do which could

be so "wild"? denny her father and run off with Rhaegar?

also in the same book on page 97 (ned talking to robert about Rhaegar

raping Lyanna) :

"you avenged lyanna at the trident, " ned said, halting besides the king. Promise me, ned, she had whispered.

now why would that re-occuring scene come up then? maybe he was

feeling guilty for his comment which supported Roberts view of

Rhaegar raping Lyanna? when infact that wasn't the case?

Maybe these dont support R + L = J but they do support the possibilty

that she wasn't raped, ofcourse we know this view however it could also go to

support the parents of Jon or if not the pressense of an entirely different

baby.

I personally would rather see Jon as the son of Ned and Ashara.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Diva, sorry to be a spoilsport!

I think R+L=J is interesting because it makes the past so important (which I think gives the series depth) and because it could create some interesting conflicts in the future in terms of Jon as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, possible heir of Robb Stark, and possible claimant to the Iron Throne. Not to mention how Dany would react. Daddy Brandon or Benjen doesn't really accomplish much.

It is clear, I think, that there's a lot we don't know about Rhaegar. We keep being told Selmy's going to say something about him at some point. It may not have anything to do with Lyanna or Jon . . . but there's clearly some secrets involving her as well. Ned's really disturbingly obsessed with those promises he made just before she died. I mean really: the man needed a shrink.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Diva, I'd really like myself for Brandon to be Jon's father, and I had it all down pat and well explained (in my head), except that it's really stretched timewise :(

Nobody here took me seriously, for reasonable reasons :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...