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A Memory of Light [FULL SPOILER DISCUSSION] Part 3


Stubby

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Can somebody please tell me that Bela/Mandarb ships are not actually real? For the sake of what little faith in humanity I still preserve?

Concerning relationships in WOT, most of them came pretty much out of the blue, to me. Especially Lan and Nynaeve.

And Rand's harem. There just never seems to be any feeling involved.

Lan and Nynaeve seemed infinitely more plausible than Thom/Moiraine.

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the one thing that kinda makes sense from elayne's perspective: doesn't she seem generally desirous of being accepting aiel customs. if anything she does want to be first sisters with aviendha and does want aviendha to think that she is cool with the custom

should that be enough to get her to accept this arrangement? probably not. but perhaps enough to get her to go along with it.

perhaps it would have broken down once elayne/min were forced to think beyond the immediate present

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Didn't Lan and Nynaeve's "relationship" start with her sneaking up on him and him being impressed? And then all of a sudden they were in love?

Relationships were not Jordan's strong suit. At all.

The first part yes. I don't remember them suddenly being in love though. That takes, I believe, most of their trip to Camelyn.

So, like most of RJ's relationships, ridiculously fast and under-shown, but not instant.

I'd say Thom and Morraine is one of the most plausible in that it happens almost entirely off-screen.

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the one thing that kinda makes sense from elayne's perspective: doesn't she seem generally desirous of being accepting aiel customs. if anything she does want to be first sisters with aviendha and does want aviendha to think that she is cool with the custom

should that be enough to get her to accept this arrangement? probably not. but perhaps enough to get her to go along with it.

IIRC Elayne only made an effort to accept some of Aiel's customs because she wanted to make the "Rand sharing plan" work. She only got really close friends to Aviendha and had the idea of becoming first-sisers after she was already accepted the idea of sharing him.

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IIRC Elayne only made an effort to accept some of Aiel's customs because she wanted to make the "Rand sharing plan" work. She only got really close friends to Aviendha and had the idea of becoming first-sisers after she was already accepted the idea of sharing him.

could be. i'm guessing that you remember better than i do. i was basing on elayne's attitude over the later part of the series.

in that case, yeah it makes little sense for elayne

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It makes total sense that Nynaeve would fall in love with Lan. He's tall, strong, a total hardass who saves her life and those of her friends on multiple occasions, and then she finds out that he's a freakin king.

Him falling in love with her felt real in the story. His reasons seems to be that he respects her deeply due to her devotion to the TR kids, her hunting and tracking skills, and most importantly her courage. The only thing that doesn't make any sense is that he has women throw themselves at him all the time, and what makes her so special? But I don't think that's enough to discredit their relationship.

Rand and Min have the best relationship of anyone. Rand and Elayne is good up until the issue with the two letters, and Rand and Aviendha would make perfect sense if not for the existence of the other relationships.

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Him falling in love with her felt real in the story. His reasons seems to be that he respects her deeply due to her devotion to the TR kids, her hunting and tracking skills, and most importantly her courage. The only thing that doesn't make any sense is that he has women throw themselves at him all the time, and what makes her so special? But I don't think that's enough to discredit their relationship.

Why Lan falls for Nynaeve is fairly obvious. For one thing, not every woman who throws herself at him can track him despite his best efforts. But most importantly, Nynaeve is exactly like him in her dedication to her duty. So is Moiraine, but Moiraine always wants to keep things professional. Nynaeve is different, in that regard. We see the first sign that Lan is falling for her when he questions Moiraine's decision to leave Nynaeve behind at the Whitecloak camp. I mean, Lan gave her an incredibly tough task, which she completed successfully, and she never once blinked at the danger. And despite her fear of Aes Sedai, she never once let up on constantly questioning Moiraine's plans for her "charges".

Nynaeve will do what she thinks she must to, no matter the consequences to herself. And in the process, she became this "lone warrior" in the middle of a huge and critical beyond her control. Remind you of someone else?

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Why Lan falls for Nynaeve is fairly obvious. For one thing, not every woman who throws herself at him can track him despite his best efforts. But most importantly, Nynaeve is exactly like him in her dedication to her duty. So is Moiraine, but Moiraine always wants to keep things professional. Nynaeve is different, in that regard. We see the first sign that Lan is falling for her when he questions Moiraine's decision to leave Nynaeve behind at the Whitecloak camp. I mean, Lan gave her an incredibly tough task, which she completed successfully, and she never once blinked at the danger. And despite her fear of Aes Sedai, she never once let up on constantly questioning Moiraine's plans for her "charges".

Nynaeve will do what she thinks she must to, no matter the consequences to herself. And in the process, she became this "lone warrior" in the middle of a huge and critical beyond her control. Remind you of someone else?

:) We do also see how the Lan+Nyn relationship works after they are together and they seem fairly good as a couple.

re: Rand and his harem, that never worked for me anyway so the ending isn't a big surprise. It was always going to be a mess. Rand+ Min is pretty okay and hopefully after the "Rand as a bum" end, he and Min will get together.

Elayne and Rand don't seem to have a lot in common. They don't even seem to be good friends. I think it's more of a good sexual chemistry thing which I think is fairly acceptable. IRL a lot of relationships are like that. Maybe rand will drop in at her palace every few months for a booty call, why not?

Rand+Avi, no idea. They were always doing this weird thing where Avi was always lecturing/hectoring him over customs. That's all I remember of them.

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It might be my fascination with Min in general, but years ago I had decided that Rand’s relationship is with Min and it’s an open relationship, which therefore allows him to occasionally fool around with El and Avi. Min was the first girl he met (of the three and also outside the TR). Up until then the only girl in his life was Egwene, but as early as mid-way through TEotW they started growing apart, while other women crept into Rand’s life.

As the series progressed it came down to practicalities – Elayne and Aviendha had things to do, places to be, they were both strong channelers and their unique talents and abilities were needed in many of the storylines. Min on the other hand, despite her unique talent, could be spared to hang around Rand. I am not saying all this in such a way to demean her – quite the opposite. She wanted to be near Rand and she, unlike the other two, got what she wanted. In terms of personal love-life Min is to be commended for managing to not only stay near Rand, but to make him love her in return (she loves him before he loved her, or at least before he had admitted it to himself). Rand might not realize it himself, but he’s influenced by Min much more than by the other two – she is not only his lover, but his confidant and his advisor (mostly courtesy of her viewings).

If them spending so much time together was not proof enough, just look at the perils they’ve shared– first they are kidnapped together in TLoC – Rand not only goes into a bloodrage once he finds out she’s kidnapped, killing 2 warders with his bare hands, but he manages to save her and protect her. Later, in ACoS, when the palace is under attack, he makes a great deal of ensuring her safety before doing anything else. There are numerous other occasions when he openly worries about her safety and changes his plans to protect her from danger.

He never does that for El and hardly for Avi.

Excluding the igloo-scene, which was 3 parts misunderstanding, 1 part passion and 1 part “we’re freakin’-cold-might-as-well-shag”, his other private moments with Avi and El are both booty calls. There is no romance in either – they feel forced, especially the one in AMoL. With Min there is real romance and there is also friendship (their love basically grew from that). In public Min supports Rand, takes his side, shares his ideas, goals and philosophies. Elayne and Avi, at best, keep silent. But they usually disagree with what he does, think they know better (when they do not) and openly contradict and ridicule him on many a occasion. I concede that the latter is considered somewhat normal behaviour for a woman in love in Randland, but I still prefer Min’s way of going about it.

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I think all of the harem girls makes sense from their POV, but not that they'd share.Aviendha probably has the least actual chemistry (but the one who'd be the most willing to settle for the arrangement) Min works both in-narrative and becuase well, she's a fatalist and know what's going to happen anyway, no use not rolling with it.

I thought Elayne made perfect sense at start, basically as crush deepening into a kind of companionship (and they do spend some time together in Tear) but after that start they never actually get a relationship going or anything (it feels like, anyway)

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It always read like Elayne and Rand have this incredibly shallow relationship that's based on youthful infatuation and some good old fashioned lust.

It really fits all the evidence given in the books, but I'm not sure it's what RJ was going for. :P

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It might be my fascination with Min in general, but years ago I had decided that Rand’s relationship is with Min and it’s an open relationship, which therefore allows him to occasionally fool around with El and Avi. Min was the first girl he met (of the three and also outside the TR). Up until then the only girl in his life was Egwene, but as early as mid-way through TEotW they started growing apart, while other women crept into Rand’s life.

Im trying hard but cant think what TR is

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It always read like Elayne and Rand have this incredibly shallow relationship that's based on youthful infatuation and some good old fashioned lust.

It really fits all the evidence given in the books, but I'm not sure it's what RJ was going for. :P

Yeah, it seems shallow, but they also seem.... Vaguely compatible? As in, I could see why they'd go for each other. But it's not a Grand Love Story For The Ages. It's more "I fancy you." "I kinda fancy you too." "Let's make out!" "Sure!"

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