A Memory of Light [FULL SPOILER DISCUSSION] Part 3

[Dr. Tachyon]

You realize there were extensive notes and a summary for how the story should play out, right? Sanderson wasn't just making shit up as he went along.

As long as those notes haven't been published we can only speculate about their extent. They can't have been very detailed or Sanderson didn't follow them.

[fionwe1987]

You realize there were extensive notes and a summary for how the story should play out, right? Sanderson wasn't just making shit up as he went along.

While I don't endorse the fan fiction position, the extent of the notes has been fudged, and its becoming pretty clear now that its nowhere near as much as we were led to believe. Brandon did indeed make a lot of shit up.

[Alex.]

Edit: Actually, that wasn't very constructive.

[Ninefingers]

The book drags in alot of places because of endless mind-numbing trolloc slaughter.

This. 100 times this.

The previous 2 Sanderson books felt like they moved along nicely. This one felt padded.

[awesome possum]

While I don't endorse the fan fiction position, the extent of the notes has been fudged, and its becoming pretty clear now that its nowhere near as much as we were led to believe. Brandon did indeed make a lot of shit up.

That's his job as an author. I expect him to make it up as he goes with minor quibbles, but something as major as The Dragon's Peace? Rand's personal legacy and a major plot point for the final two books were just created out of thin air?

[Shryke]

The whole Peace of the Dragon business does't make much sense in the context of the Wheel. I can see Rand try to impose it but it would never be successful, nor should it be. It would lock down the late 3rd Age status quo when the Last Battle is supposed to bring a turning of the Wheel. Sanderson just doesn't get the Wheel. The book is fan fiction at its worst.

This doesn't make sense. The Dragon Peace is perfectly consistent with the rest of the series. It won't last forever, but so what? I don't even think Rand expects it to last forever. But it will, hopefully, let Rand give the world 100s of years of peace.

[Shryke]

That's his job as an author. I expect him to make it up as he goes with minor quibbles, but something as major as The Dragon's Peace? Rand's personal legacy and a major plot point for the final two books were just created out of thin air?

The Dragon Peace I don't think so, but we don't know for sure and it's perfectly possible it was. Alot of stuff was not covered by any notes or only by the vaguest things (like a note says "Aviendha has crippled legs at the end" and nothing about how or why or when).

I'm pretty sure BS has said something like 50% of the last 3 books was 100% done by him..

[Frog Eater]

What's to hate about the Dragon's peace? I actually liked that the Aiel have a purpose moving forward, The Seanchan can return to Seanchan to reclaim the crystal throne without having to worry about losing the lands they have claimed, and security for every kingdom for the next 100 years.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Not to mention Rand's vision of the pattern shows that keeping the Dragon Peace does result, essentially, in a new Age of Legends. Peace, prosperity, and little war.

[Shryke]

Not to mention Rand's vision of the pattern shows that keeping the Dragon Peace does result, essentially, in a new Age of Legends. Peace, prosperity, and little war.

It's not really a vision though. Or not strictly. It's like a dreamshard. It's a reality he created.

How closely actual reality resembles it is seriously up for debate.

[fionwe1987]

How closely actual reality resembles it is seriously up for debate.

It wasn't a dream shard. What it resembled was a mirror world. He got to set the preconditions, and then stimulate the results. So the future where the DO is resealed is the actual future.

[Shryke]

Then how does the DO use the same power to simulate a world where the pattern doesn't even exist?

[williamjm]

It wasn't a dream shard. What it resembled was a mirror world. He got to set the preconditions, and then stimulate the results. So the future where the DO is resealed is the actual future.

I got the impression it was only one possible world, Rand even thinks when he sees the war memorial that the details aren't set yet. The world is a chaotic system so even a small change in what happened later in the book compared to what Rand was expecting to happen when he created the vision of the future could potentially lead to a big change in how the world turns out a century later.

[Dr. Tachyon]

The story is called The Wheel of Time. Jordan has given us quite a bit of background info on the big picture. Time is cyclical on a large scale. There a sequence of seven ages, which keeps repeating. The "Last Battle" is one of those events which end one Age and begin the next. The Breaking was another. These events may look like terrible catastrophes to those who have to live through them but they are necessary to keep the Wheel turning. A new Age of Legends makes no sense whatsoever because it's not time for that. The AOL is the second Age, the Last Battle brings the fourth Age. Neither makes locking down the political order make any sense because that didn't even last throughout the third Age. The 4th Age is supposed to be as profoundly different from the 3rd as the Age of Legends was, but not a repetition of the AOL. We also know that there are ages where they don't have access to the Power because we know it was discovered at some point in the past.

There's also Nicola Treehill's Foretelling in Lord of Chaos:

The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.

This doesn't rule out the Peace of the Dragon. It actually hints at some kind of peace deal to be brought about by Rand. But after the Last Battle, not before. Whatever Jordan had planned here is obviously not the ending Sanderson wrote for AMoL.

[Darth Richard]

I love this.

"The book didn't end how i wanted it so obviously Sanderson COULDN'T have followed the notes!"

You guys really how crazy that is?

[Gigei]

The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.

The lion sword - Elayne

the dedicated spear - Avi

she who sees beyond - Min

On a boat? I guess its not literal, more like an Arthurian reference.

he who is dead yet lives - done

The rest just says there will still be fighting which we already know will happen because of Avi's and Rand's visions of life after the last battle. And anyway, Randland isn't any sort of utopia right after Rand defeats the DO so its pretty much certain there will be fighting here and there with a lot of displaced people, hunger, Seanchan, etc.

I am looking forward to the encyclopedia.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Tachyon - I didn't mean literally a new Age of Legends. I thought that was obvious. But there's no requirement for every Age to end or begin in a cataclysm of any kind. And there are four whole Ages we know nothing about. Rand's vision could well be the Fourth Age.

Also, a flaw of the last book is that we had very little perspective on the world as a whole... But it's safe to say that they have in fact suffered a cataclysm. Even with victory there will be years of widespread famine and poverty. And even Rand'a vision mentions war in Shara, and Tuon will presumably go to Seanchan to reclaim her empire. Even with peace in Randland for a hundred years Nicola's Foretelling is still true.

[Shryke]

Yeah, Min mentions a huge famine to come as I remember.

[Isalie]

This is the same series that produced Winter's Heard and Crossroads of Twilight, right? How does one butcher something that's already been pretty well butchered?

I must say I liked both those books much more than amol, this book was just terrible.

A question though, did I sleep through something or was the prologue with the melting steel totally meaningless? They still used steel all the time throughout the novel?

[Gigei]

Yeah, Min mentions a huge famine to come as I remember.

Pretty obvious there will still be a ton of suffering to come, which is why the supposedly/probably purely RJ-written epilogue seems rather out of place. I mean, here is Rand, who previously was very upset about the women who died for him, now merrily strolling off without a care in the world even though right behind him are tons of wounded, dying, crippled, starving, homeless refugees.

Many of these are people that Rand personally recruited to fight in the last battle with him, including some non-fighters. I recall there was at least one farmer who encountered Rand; wonder boy told him the last battle was coming and the farmer packed up and left to join the fighting. And Rand is okay just leaving all these people? Not even helping them the a bit?

In my eyes this is a failure of timing.

I mean, if Rand had been in a coma for like 5 years and walked off then, most of the immediate problems would have already been taken cared of and it would have been okay.

But hey, in the end that's what Jordan wanted so it's pointless to complain lol. I do believe Sanderson when he says this was the actual Jordan ending, just to me the it doesn't seem 100% right. Maybe Jordan meant to write a scene before that would have explained why it would be best for Rand to just disappear.

For example/Speculation: the last battle gave Rand cool reality-warper powers but as a consequence he is now too powerful such that any non-trivial use of this power would unbalance the Wheel. Therefore he simply can't take on even a minor position of responsibility as the temptation to use his power would be too great.

As it is, I guess Rand just decided he wanted to be free. No reason for it, he just wanted it.