A Memory of Light [FULL SPOILER DISCUSSION] Part 3

[Dr. Tachyon]

A food riot isn't a battle the foretelling remains unfulfilled. That's a minor issue by itself, of course, but indicative of the mismatch between Jordan's buildup and Sanderson's ending.

The whole "Sanderson working off Jordan's notes" story rings hollow. It's the New Dune story all over again. Not really surprising if you look at the publisher. The WoT is just too big a franchise for them to give up.

[Which Tyler]

A question though, did I sleep through something or was the prologue with the melting steel totally meaningless? They still used steel all the time throughout the novel?

t'was a bubble of evil, not worldwide

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Tachyon - So you don't consider the imminent reconquista of Seanchan to be war? Or the fighting in Shara Rand sees in his vision of a possible future?

Dude, her Foretelling boils down to "there will still be war after the Last Battle." Nothing to suggest it'll be immediately after, nothing even to suggest it'll happen in any given Age. Hell they could have peace through all the turnings of the wheel until the next War of Power equivalent in the next Second Age and her Foretelling would still be technically true.

I really don't understand your latching on to this one, very minor point. There are much bigger issues that one could criticize. For example, the fact that Dobraine's continued life had to be stated in an interview after the fact because BS didn't bother to give the man a byline.

[Isalie]

t'was a bubble of evil, not worldwide

Ok, but didn't steel melt in the previous book? And what was the point of introducing the stone workers if they were not going to make weapons, or did their weapons surface somewhere during the LB?

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

It was just a one-off showing the further deterioration of the Pattern, just like the similar snippet of the farmer forging his scythes into weapons in a previous book.

It served several purposes:

- What I said above

- Further demonstration that people felt like they needed to put aside their worldly concerns and do something to save themselves

- Wrapped up the "Jarid at large" plotline

- Demonstrated again the "Dragon breaks all bonds" thing that had been seen elsewhere

[Gigei]

I must say I liked both those books much more than amol, this book was just terrible.

A question though, did I sleep through something or was the prologue with the melting steel totally meaningless? They still used steel all the time throughout the novel?

Yeah, that steel thing was just local. The prologue was just thematic, the steel was not really significant later on.

There are much bigger issues that one could criticize. For example, the fact that Dobraine's continued life had to be stated in an interview after the fact because BS didn't bother to give the man a byline.

I was asking about that earlier. Also, I thought Morgase would do something. Jordan spent a whole lot of time on her but in the end there was no real significance to her whole arc. A lot of things were really anti-climatic like when Moraine only talked for a bit and that was her whole "Moraine must be there or you will fail" bit.

Don't get me wrong though, overall I am still happy with the job Sanderson did. I doubt anyone else could have done it so fast and workmanlike.

[Shryke]

All sorts of minor plotlines are just abandoned or forgotten.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Jordan himself said years ago that not all plot points would be resolved.

[Shryke]

Jordan himself said years ago that not all plot points would be resolved.

There's a difference between "Not all plots are completely resolved" (see - the Seanchan situation) and "Ooops, totally forgot that existed" (see - Dobraine, the huge Darkhound pack from CoT, most of the other minor characters, etc)

[Isalie]

There's a difference between "Not all plots are completely resolved" (see - the Seanchan situation) and "Ooops, totally forgot that existed" (see - Dobraine, the huge Darkhound pack from CoT, most of the other minor characters, etc)

I feel that I come across as more harsh on Sanderson than I would prefer, after all, I am grateful that he finished the series, but bloody hell or ashes how I hated many impossibly bad plot endings. Darkhounds, Fain, Alivia, and on and on, I mean, the book must've been really long, 1000 pages-ish? and at least half must've been random Lan pov killing trolloc? Who let him send it to the presses this way? Didn't anyone read it beforehand? Like an editor maybe?

It's unfortunate is what it is, that a thing that I and many others have spent so much time on would go out in such a whimper.

[Maithanet]

I feel that I come across as more harsh on Sanderson than I would prefer, after all, I am grateful that he finished the series, but bloody hell or ashes how I hated many impossibly bad plot endings. Darkhounds, Fain, Alivia, and on and on, I mean, the book must've been really long, 1000 pages-ish? and at least half must've been random Lan pov killing trolloc? Who let him send it to the presses this way? Didn't anyone read it beforehand? Like an editor maybe?

It's unfortunate is what it is, that a thing that I and many others have spent so much time on would go out in such a whimper.

Yeah, that is pretty close to my feelings as well. I personally blame Sanderson only a little for this, and hold Harriet/Tor much more responsible, because I think that they were making their decisions based on money rather than based on finishing up the series as best as possible. I think that if they'd really wanted the series to finish as strongly as possible, they would need to wait until it was nearly finished (at least very strongly outlined) before releasing book 12. TGS was very good, but it screwed up the timeline and the tension in ToM. I think that the final conclusion could have been done in two books, with better editing, but three would still be acceptable if done well.

But Tor knew that with Jordan dead, the clock was ticking on the series, and the longer that they waited, the fewer sales they could count on. This is understandable, since they are of course a business, but shortsighted. I was hesitant to recommend WoT to anyone who likes fantasy after the doldrums of books 8-10, and the fact that the conclusion provides so little payoff is just one more mark against it. If they'd given the editing/rewrite process more time, does anybody doubt that they could have resolved a bunch of these issues? I know I don't. But instead we got what we got. It's finished, but that's about all I can say of it. I doubt very much that I'll ever read WoT again.

[Shryke]

I doubt I'll ever read AMOL again.

The rest is still well worth it. Even TGS and TOM, for all their issues, had some good shit in them. AMOL was, for the most part, fluff and waste.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Shryke - They actually did resolve the Darkhounds. They showed up at Shayol Ghul and were... I dunno, attacked by wolves or something? I can't remember lol

[Shryke]

Shryke - They actually did resolve the Darkhounds. They showed up at Shayol Ghul and were... I dunno, attacked by wolves or something? I can't remember lol

No, I'm talking about the Darkhound tracks Perrin finds in CoT. Giant pack, headed south with urgency, hunting ... something.

In AMOL, Darkhounds are just a stupid afterthought like so much else and thus get short shrift to add another 100 pages of trolloc slaughter or faffing about with BS's super-channeler.

[Isalie]

Not to mention Moghedien. What the hell? The spider walks around among Seanchan in plain sight? And ones the bracelet is on, she don't reach for the TP? (The TP might have been gone though? What with the DO losing and all, still, that's hardly the point)

Speaking of Forsaken, barring her "villians always talk to themselves" moment, I liked Graendal and her performance at the SG fight, too bad she didn't kill Aviendha, or at least escaped in the end. On the other Forsaken, the one that's been hyped for about 10000 pages, who apparently had an explanation written for his sudden overzeal, which was not included in the final version... I can not understand these decisions.

[Rhom]

On the other Forsaken, the one that's been hyped for about 10000 pages, who apparently had an explanation written for his sudden overzeal, which was not included in the final version... I can not understand these decisions.

Must have missed that... what was the reasoning?

[Brendan Moody]

The reasoning was that giving so much new information about Shara so late in the series would be distracting, and that the general tone of what was created was more Sanderson than Jordan. That material is what's being published separately as "River of Souls" in the Unfettered anthology.

[Rhom]

The reasoning was that giving so much new information about Shara so late in the series would be distracting, and that the general tone of what was created was more Sanderson than Jordan. That material is what's being published separately as "River of Souls" in the Unfettered anthology.

Gotcha.

[Ninefingers]

I skimmed the Lan sections, which is never a good sign.

Seems to me that the decision was made to publish 3 books and then BS was a little too efficient packing things into the first two, leaving only 400-500 pages of real material for book 3.

I think the plotlines left unresolved gripe is a legitimate one, but to be fair I think we have to acknowledge that RJ left BS a pretty big mess to clean up.

As for going out with a wimper - yep, agreed. But given the ending RJ laid out (Big fight, Rand wins) how much more could we have expected?

[Brendan Moody]

Seems to me that the decision was made to publish 3 books and then BS was a little too efficient packing things into the first two, leaving only 400-500 pages of real material for book 3.

Not really. When Sanderson first planned to split the material, he saw two books, the first covering what wound up being TGS and TOM, the second being AMOL. The split into three came when he realized he wasn't going to finish that first of two books by the deadline. So he always thought of the stuff from Merrilor onwards as a single book. Personally I think that was an error in judgment.