Jump to content
Angalin

Small questions for ADwD, v.V

Recommended Posts

In the last daenerys' episode it says:


She scooped up a handful of mud and water in trembling hands.


Why? is it some cure to cramps? does a handful of water and mud means something else?



and in the last tyrion's episode:


The dwarf rocked back on the camp stool.


does it mean that tyrion jumped to sit on the camp stull, swung on the camp stool, or what


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the last daenerys' episode it says:

She scooped up a handful of mud and water in trembling hands.

Why? is it some cure to cramps? does a handful of water and mud means something else?

and in the last tyrion's episode:

The dwarf rocked back on the camp stool.

does it mean that tyrion jumped to sit on the camp stull, swung on the camp stool, or what

She wants a drink, she needs to cup the water in her hands, she scoops up mud too by accident, quite common when scooping water from a shallow stream.

I dont think its important but it sounds like hebjust leaned back like you do when you "swing" on a chair

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have two questions that I can't find an answer for



- Jon Connington seems like a savvy chap. Given that we don't know at what point he first met young Aegon, has Jon considered the possibility the young lad might not be a Targaryen? Or does his desire for attrition over the death of Rheagar blind him?



- Osney Kettleblack was sent to "confess" to sleeping with Margery. However, under torture he broke and confessed to "all" his sins. However, Littlefinger claims that the Kettleblacks are really working for him. So what is the situation:



1) Osney confessed to the "sins" implicating Cersei but didnt mention Littlefinger (seems very unlikely, if he cracked under torture he would say anything to save himself)


2) Littlefinger was lying and the Kettleblacks do not work for him (again, unlikely as Littlefinger seems to know whats going on at Kings Landing and is shown to have a connection with the Kettleblack family)


3) Osney didnt know he was working for Littlefinger and just followed his older brothers orders (again, seems unlikely that he would know nothing at all of their true purpose when actively involved)


4) The high speton knows about Littlefinger's scheming but just has not yet mentioned it as Littlefinger is out of reach



Thoughts?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have two questions that I can't find an answer for

- Jon Connington seems like a savvy chap. Given that we don't know at what point he first met young Aegon, has Jon considered the possibility the young lad might not be a Targaryen? Or does his desire for attrition over the death of Rheagar blind him?

- Osney Kettleblack was sent to "confess" to sleeping with Margery. However, under torture he broke and confessed to "all" his sins. However, Littlefinger claims that the Kettleblacks are really working for him. So what is the situation:

1) Osney confessed to the "sins" implicating Cersei but didnt mention Littlefinger (seems very unlikely, if he cracked under torture he would say anything to save himself)

2) Littlefinger was lying and the Kettleblacks do not work for him (again, unlikely as Littlefinger seems to know whats going on at Kings Landing and is shown to have a connection with the Kettleblack family)

3) Osney didnt know he was working for Littlefinger and just followed his older brothers orders (again, seems unlikely that he would know nothing at all of their true purpose when actively involved)

4) The high speton knows about Littlefinger's scheming but just has not yet mentioned it as Littlefinger is out of reach

Thoughts?

For the Kettleblacks i'll have to check my books, but IIRC JonCon served for 5 years in the GC, after which he was kicked out. The next year, he was said to have drunk himself to death in Lys. Now, he didn't really do that, but it would only be believable if he really was in Lys. So adding all that up, that brings us to 6 years after the Sack. Aegon would have been 7.

Though it is unknown when JonCon joined the GC, I always thought he did so reasonably soon after being exiled. If there was more time in between, JonCon met Aegon later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so I'm clear, Cersei's incest charge is for sex with Lancel, correct? I'm asserting this based on the lack of action taken against Jaime by the Faith, and the fact that the High Septon is hostile towards Stannis's conversion to the fire god, and would likely be resistant towards giving credence to any accusation Stannis may level. Am I wrong on this?

The other charges are regicide, diecide, and treason. The first two are self explanatory, but what about the treason? Is this for lying about Margery (everyone recanted), plotting to kill Robert, or a catchall charge for all her actions?

Hi, maybe Cersei is charged with treason because Osney Kettleback (after interrogation) admitted that he had sex with Cersei (source: A Feast for Crows). If I am not mistaken, a queen having sex outside marriage is treason. Lying about Margaery maybe also be thought of as treason, because Cersei slandered the other Queen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, maybe Cersei is charged with treason because Osney Kettleback (after interrogation) admitted that he had sex with Cersei (source: A Feast for Crows). If I am not mistaken, a queen having sex outside marriage is treason. Lying about Margaery maybe also be thought of as treason, because Cersei slandered the other Queen.

Treason wouldn't be for Kettleblack, he was after Robert died and she did the time for that crime with the walk of shame. If it's alleged she had sex with Lancel while Robert was alive then that's your treason. As for Marge, she's still on trial so obv everybody didn't recant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She is also being charged with regicide (killing the king) and deicide (killing a God/The High Septon). Her charge of fornication is for the Kettleblacks and Lancel, if the Faith were to find her guilty with Jamie then they lose all the power give to them.by Tommen, which of course they dont want to happen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, maybe Cersei is charged with treason because Osney Kettleback (after interrogation) admitted that he had sex with Cersei (source: A Feast for Crows). If I am not mistaken, a queen having sex outside marriage is treason. Lying about Margaery maybe also be thought of as treason, because Cersei slandered the other Queen.

Treason wouldn't be for Kettleblack, he was after Robert died and she did the time for that crime with the walk of shame. If it's alleged she had sex with Lancel while Robert was alive then that's your treason. As for Marge, she's still on trial so obv everybody didn't recant.

She is also being charged with regicide (killing the king) and deicide (killing a God/The High Septon). Her charge of fornication is for the Kettleblacks and Lancel, if the Faith were to find her guilty with Jamie then they lose all the power give to them.by Tommen, which of course they dont want to happen

The charge of Cersei sleeping with Lancel was done because Lancel confessed. Cersei has also admitted to it, though it happened after Robert's death. She even claims she only did it because she was lonely after Robert's death,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Cersei is leaving the Great Sept, she remembers when Joffrey ordered Ned killed and reflects that if he had followed the plan and sent Ned to the Wall, the Starks wouldn't go to war.




If Joff had only done as he was told, Winterfell would never have gone to war, and Father would have dealt with Robert's brothers.




However, Robb called the banners and marched south as soon as he learned of his father's imprisonment, and it is unlikely that he would go back home if Ned was just sent to the Wall, although negotiations would certainly be easier. Is this passage a slip from Cersei, or perhaps from the author himself?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Cersei is leaving the Great Sept, she remembers when Joffrey ordered Ned killed and reflects that if he had followed the plan and sent Ned to the Wall, the Starks wouldn't go to war.

However, Robb called the banners and marched south as soon as he learned of his father's imprisonment, and it is unlikely that he would go back home if Ned was just sent to the Wall, although negotiations would certainly be easier. Is this passage a slip from Cersei, or perhaps from the author himself?

No, part of the deal would have been for Ned to order Robb to return home. IIRC Varys tells this to Ned. Robb would have listened to Ned. He would have had no other choice after Ned had admitted to treason openly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Coldhands Benjen Stark?

I vote yes. He turns to Bran and says "your monster" about himself. I think he is controlled by the COTF and/or Brenden the Greenseer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know whether this has been covered before but I can't find it, during the Margery/Cersei trial was it proven or said that Pycelle lied about brewing moon tea for Margery? I know that he is primarily loyal to the Lannisters so I presumed he was lying but just wondered was it said outright.

Reread the Epilogue in ADWD. Pycelle is figuratively wringing his hands over Lord Tyrell murdering him.. "This matter of the moon tea... I would never have spoken of such, but the Queen Dowager commanded me!..." And then requests more guards, fearing violence at the hands of Mace.

It is vague enough that we do not know if he brewed it and Cersei forced him to reveal it or whether she simply commanded Pycelle to say he did. Unless someone has something else, I would say, not enough to go on. But Varys knew the truth, what other reason would he have to kill Pycelle? Varys knows how to get into the Hand's chambers, so it is curious he lured him to Pycelle's chambers.

Has the Little Queen denied It? I cannot remember.

And isn't this the first time Cersei is called the Queen Dowager?

Help -- I don't know how to combine these

Edited by Beathag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reread the Epilogue in ADWD. Pycelle is figuratively wringing his hands over Lord Tyrell murdering him.. "This matter of the moon tea... I would never have spoken of such, but the Queen Dowager commanded me!..." And then requests more guards, fearing violence at the hands of Mace.

It is vague enough that we do not know if he brewed it and Cersei forced him to reveal it or whether she simply commanded Pycelle to say he did. Unless someone has something else, I would say, not enough to go on. But Varys knew the truth, what other reason would he have to kill Pycelle? Varys knows how to get into the Hand's chambers, so it is curious he lured him to Pycelle's chambers.

Has the Little Queen denied It? I cannot remember.

And isn't this the first time Cersei is called the Queen Dowager?

Help -- I don't know how to combine these

Cersei has been Queen Dowager since Robert died. Though it isn't said much in the books, IIRC it was not the first time. She's also called that in several of the appendices

Varys has stated that Pycelle and Kevan were actually doing a good job ruling together. That is the reason Varys gives to Kevan: he needs chaos in Westeros not stability. Though I think the violence with what Pycelle was killed shows how much Varys disliked him.

There's also Pycelle's line about knowing things about Varys, which suggests that Pycelle knows some of Varys' secrets. It could be Pycelle was killed for that reason as well.

Kevan isn't Hand, he is regent. Mace is Hand ;) also, Cersei had the Tower of the Hand burned down, so there are no more chambers of the Hand to sneak into. Perhaps Pycelle's chambers were more isolated than Kevans.

I do believe Pycelle was lying about the moon tea. He has said or done things often because of what Cersei seemed to want, but not said. Also, she cuts him off when he wants to say more about it. And would Margaery really be that stupid? I doubt it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has the Little Queen denied It? I cannot remember.

And isn't this the first time Cersei is called the Queen Dowager?

No, Cersei has been called the Queen Dowager once before in ADwD 65 Cersei XII:

Septa Unella stepped forward. "A sinner comes before you," she declared. "She is Cersei of House Lannister, queen dowager, mother to His Grace King Tommen, widow of His Grace King Robert, and she has committed grievous falsehoods and fornications."

I do believe Pycelle was lying about the moon tea. He has said or done things often because of what Cersei seemed to want, but not said. Also, she cuts him off when he wants to say more about it. And would Margaery really be that stupid? I doubt it...

I used to believe Margaery got weakly poisoned moon tea to cure some monthly ill-ease teenager girls may experience, not to cause an abortion as there's no need for that. However, the lie suggested to Pycelle works so much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reviewing unanswered questions and loose ends in this thread from up to almost a year ago:

Which chapter, before Asha's last one, is it stated that Mors Umber arrived at Winterfell?

Because that confused me. First, I didn't realise who was blowing the horns and secondly, I mistook him for the Umber inside Winterfell and was wondering where the rest of the Bolton/Frey host would be. Derpy me. :P

ADwD 37 The Prince of Winterfell: Crowfood Umber marches down the kingsroad, whilst the Karstarks approach from the east.

ADwD 42 The King's Prize: "Arnolf Karstark will join his strength to ours, never forget," said Harwood Fell. "Mors Umber as well."

No mention of Mors 'Crowfood' Umber by name for some time. But there's this:

ADwD 51 Theon I: By the time the sky began to lighten the sound of drums had faded away, though warhorns were heard thrice more, each time a little closer.

ADwD 62 The Sacrifice: "We looked for you at Winterfell, but found only Crowfood Umber beating drums and blowing horns."

So that may be Mors 'Crowfood' Umber arriving in ADwD 51 Theon I.

Is Patchface now a creature of the Drowned God? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Oh! Oh! Oh!

It depends:
Is there a Drowned God?
- No? Then no.

- Yes? Then has Patchface become his follower (his creature)?

-- No? Then maybe,

-- Yes? Then probably.

But how did that come to be? Did the merpeople convert him to his new belief, under the sea, where the snow falls up? Interesting question?

Storm's End is described as looking like a giant fist. This could foreshadow Aegon taking Storm's End.

There's more information about Aegon's plan to take Storm's End in TWoW Arianne II:

Where she learns Aegon has taken Storm's End.

Theon & Jeyne escape from WF by leaping off the wall after passing through the Battlements Gate. On which side of WF is the Battlements Gate located? North, South, West? Also, Manderly is instructed by Bolton to leave from the east gate, which leads to the Kingsroad, & the Freys are to leave by the main gate. Which one is the main gate? The north gate or the south gate?

@Bran Vras has put an effort into visualising Winterfell and collecting other's (La Garde de Nuit) efforts to do so. See here for his more detailed work or despoiler the short answer:

South gate

Dany burns drogo while he was still alive or still in a vegetable state... Was that a sacrifice that she unknowingly pays to hatch the dragon eggs?

Drogo having been suffocated before has been answered before.

The assumption that his life pays at least part of the blood price for the Waking the Dragons may be quite adequate, though.

And it does not need to have been entirely unknowingly. She reproduced some of Mirri Maaz Duur's ritual in the burning of Khal Drogo's body, and maybe she had actually read some of the Westerosi stories about the earlier waking-the-dragon attempts, like the Tragedy of Summerhall. Who knows?

Is Roose scared of Ramsay??

Cause I think he is

Roose is described as bloodless, besides working on his leechings to make that a true description. Roose has no fear(s) whatsoever.

Ok maybe scared might've been the wrong word... I'm thinking mistrust?? But I'm still trying to find the Theon chapter

Of course he is cautious and mistrusting. That's why he still lives.

He definitely has no love for Ramsay, but at the very moment, Ramsay is indispensable to Roose's ambition to rule comfortably.

Is it possible that there is no such thing as a horn that will bring down the wall? Or maybe some like "It was lost to time". I was thinking that in keeping with the idea that prophecies always come true, whether explicitly or some round about way, it would still be true (there was a horn at one point, but now its gone).

I don't want to see the wall come down becuase why bother having a horn to destroy the wall if your not gonne use it. Its just a mcguffin.

I think a real tangible horn bringing down the wall will turn out a red herring. In the older stories of Joramun's Horn of Winter, the horn in question would awaken the sleeping Giants from the earth.

In the newest stories only it is said to bring down the wall. That's like saying the Titan of Braavos is so big, it was Bran the Builder'd built it.

I think, when the seasons of the World of Ice and Fire find their equilibrium and there'll be all four seasons in every year, the wall will melt over the years and thus come down literally.

I think it would've been smarter to seal it [The Wall] off since the only reason they didn't before was because of the wildlings, but those are no longer a factor anymore.

Thw defense line becomes useless (it already is) when you give up the other side of it. It was vital to cut down the forest creeping up to the defenses and once that wasn't done anymore the wildlings were free to scale the wall.

Little as I know of the Others and the way the Wall is able to ward them off, why don't they just come up to it and disenchant the magic, or start digging?

If the Others indeed control the wights -- there's no evidence, or is there? -- they might send an army digging through it.

Lol... Yes, the wights come at night or the night comes with the wights... But, as for the floating wights?? It makes no sense! They don't like the light! It hurts them

It hurts them? What do we know about that?

I find wights moving by night and floating by day makes sense.

edit: formatting

Edited by Jon Weirgaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have just been re-reading the Edmure/Jaime scene with the infamous trebuchet and at the end of the chapter Edmure is horrified by the presence of the singer. Why?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have just been re-reading the Edmure/Jaime scene with the infamous trebuchet and at the end of the chapter Edmure is horrified by the presence of the singer. Why?

Because it's the same singer who once bedded the girl that Edmure was supposed to bed to lose his virginity. Edmure had drank too much before, so he couldn't get it up.

Afterwards, the singer made a song about a floppy fish, to further humiliate Edmure.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys new on here this is my first post, one thing that i noticed in one the last of the kingslayer's chapters the one where he has just taken river run and is deciding the fate of those inside his description of jeyne westerling is that she has small/weak hips which is in contradiction to catelyns descrpition of her having strong child bearing hips (god knows she mentions it enough) could this be another plot point in the north for who will inherit winterfell if rob has a true born son then it could throw a curve ball into the rikkon/sansa claim.



not 100% on this theory but im pretty sure the difference in description is there



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome! :D

Could have been a mistake, but many people have taken it to mean that the girl Jaime met was Jeyne's sister, and that Jeyne herself has escaped with the Blackfish. Especially since the presence of Jeyne's sister is never mentioned, and we know the younger girl was at Riverrun as well.

GRRM has admitted to accidentally having switched up two descriptions, though I'm not entirely sure if that was about Jeyne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×