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Small questions for ADwD, v.V

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Have just been re-reading the Edmure/Jaime scene with the infamous trebuchet and at the end of the chapter Edmure is horrified by the presence of the singer. Why?

Because the singer was going to sing The Rains of Castamere, a song about a house that crossed the Lannisters and was annihilated for its trouble. Jaime wants to send a similar message to Edmure - i.e. "if you keep resisting, we will destroy your entire house."

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Because the singer was going to sing The Rains of Castamere, a song about a house that crossed the Lannisters and was annihilated for its trouble. Jaime wants to send a similar message to Edmure - i.e. "if you keep resisting, we will destroy your entire house."

That most certainly is the song Jaime wants Tom to sing for Edmure :)

But Edmure is already horrified when he sees Tom, before Tom had even sang a word. That's because Tom and Edmure already knew each other. Edmure was going to sleep with a particular girl that he fancied, to become a man, but he drank too much and was unable to perform. That's when Tom slept with the girl, and made a mocking song about Edmure. Edmure has hated all singers ever since, but he hates Tom in particular.

The more interesting thing about their latest encounter is that Tom is a member of the Brotherhood without Banners, and Riverrun is under siege. Jaime left Tom and Edmure all alone, who knows what they said to one another after the song had been sung? Did one suggest a meeting place for Brynden with the Brotherhood? Did they make another deal? Was Edmure told about Catelyn? Those are some questions to keep in mind when WoW comes around.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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JonCon's Grayscale- crackpot theory:

There is nothing cursed about waters or stone men. This is why Tyrion didn't get infected.

JonCon gets infected from Aegon, who got it from his mother Serra, Illyro's wife. She died of grayscale.

Aegon was cured as a child, like Shireen. Luckily for him, no signs are visible. But as Val fears, the disease is just being dormant for a time and may infect others. Val wanted monster away from Shireen.

Maybe i was wrong about the waters. Probably long exposure to infected boy plus the water did JonCon in. That would explain why the septa or duck are not infected.

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JonCon's Grayscale- crackpot theory:

There is nothing cursed about waters or stone men. This is why Tyrion didn't get infected.

JonCon gets infected from Aegon, who got it from his mother Serra, Illyro's wife. She died of grayscale.

Aegon was cured as a child, like Shireen. Luckily for him, no signs are visible. But as Val fears, the disease is just being dormant for a time and may infect others. Val wanted monster away from Shireen.

Maybe i was wrong about the waters. Probably long exposure to infected boy plus the water did JonCon in. That would explain why the septa or duck are not infected.

It's not confirmed that Serra had greyscale, only a "plague". Rats brought the plague from the ship (we don't have examples of greyscale being carried like that), also it would be stupid to preserve some of her remains (hands and hair) if they could be contageous, so I don't think it was greyscale.

The waters are not cursed, just contaminated. Also, Tyrion might have it in some dormant/carrier/not yet developed form, which is another semi-crackpot of mine.

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Thank you for correcting. I remember illyro telling about Serra's hand which was so soft, so I assumed it became hard and stone like, and jumped to grayscale theory. I was also under the assumption that the plague and gray scale was the same disease. So if grayscale doesn't spread like plague, its a good thing. Tyrion being dormant carrier is scary, but if he dies, that infallibly makes Sansa free to marry someone more suitable(although personally I want Sansa and Tyrion back together).

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Thank you for correcting. I remember illyro telling about Serra's hand which was so soft, so I assumed it became hard and stone like, and jumped to grayscale theory. I was also under the assumption that the plague and gray scale was the same disease. So if grayscale doesn't spread like plague, its a good thing. Tyrion being dormant carrier is scary, but if he dies, that infallibly makes Sansa free to marry someone more suitable(although personally I want Sansa and Tyrion back together).

It could be greyscale, and honestly that was my first feeling, but upon reread I realized that's never stated.

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When Melisandre is talking about the glamor used on Mance to make him look like Rattleshirt - "The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones."

A bag of fingerbones...like the ones Davos lost??

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!

This is more speculation than a question I suppose...

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When Melisandre is talking about the glamor used on Mance to make him look like Rattleshirt - "The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones."

A bag of fingerbones...like the ones Davos lost??

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!

This is more speculation than a question I suppose...

Until so far, the bag of fingerbones has not yet reappeared.

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Until so far, the bag of fingerbones has not yet reappeared.

Yes yes. But I just found it peculiar that Mel would mention it so specifically. Does she have them? Like I said, more speculation than question! :)

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Yes yes. But I just found it peculiar that Mel would mention it so specifically. Does she have them? Like I said, more speculation than question! :)

Maybe she had made note of Davos's fingerbones, if she ever needs to kill him off and use a glamour Davos to escape Stannis's wrath.

Another possibility is she have used the above said items already, Mel seems to be very experienced.

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Maybe this has been discussed before, but how did Osha and Rickon take Shaggy with them to Skagos? Its an island, right? A woman and child won't attract attention of sailors, but what about the direwolf?

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Maybe this has been discussed before, but how did Osha and Rickon take Shaggy with them to Skagos? Its an island, right? A woman and child won't attract attention of sailors, but what about the direwolf?

We don't know anything about Osha and Rickon's manner of travel, the only thing we know is that they did in fact arrive on the Island. Osha could have stolen a boat, or made one (though stolen seems to be a far more better option). Presenting Shaggydog to people would be the stupidest thing she could do, since that would betray Rickons identity.

In addition, Skagos does not have a very well reputation in the rest of Westeros. I think that anyone asking for a trip to Skagos would be attracking attention.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Maybe this has been discussed before, but how did Osha and Rickon take Shaggy with them to Skagos? Its an island, right? A woman and child won't attract attention of sailors, but what about the direwolf?

There's this wolfish sensation:

"Snow," the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer. Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees. Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. They were hunting too. A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him. In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister's pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.

at the very beginning of ADwD 03 Jon I

If you take that one literally, then shaggydog is fighting a monoceros -- the place associated with unicorns is Skagos. So they did arrive there.

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What is the secret to hatching the dragons. Originally it was assumed that the secret involved a lot of fire and blood sacrifice - life for life. In Summerhall, due to Aegon V attempt, both he and his son had died along with Duncan the tall, so at least 2 royal sacrifices plus, the egss did not hatch at all. At the same time, due to new GRRM stories, early Targs put dragon eggs into newborn prince/princesses cradles and they hatched, just like that, no blood sacrifice or nothing!


What is the deal with differences, why dragons stopped hatching for about 100-150 yrs before Dany? Is that because "magic was gone" from the world and with awakening of the Other it returned and allowed Dragon eggs to hatch ?


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@Masha: it is not a small question.



If it was known, there'd be lots of dragons around.



You may want to start a thread "What is the Secret to Hatching Dragons?" if you cannot already find one.



edit: Grrm stated that Dany the Unburnt was a one time magical moment that could not be repeated iirc.


Edited by Jon Weirgaryen

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Agreed. In any case, I doubt you can see the deaths of Aegon V, Duncan the Small and Duncan the Tall as blood sacrifices, since their deaths seem to have been accidental.

Eggs were put in the beds of newly born Targaryens. How are those children supposed to hatch their dragons, if blood sacrifice is required?

Dany did use a blood sacrifice. But Dany's dragons hatching was, as GRRM has put it, a special case.

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Agreed. In any case, I doubt you can see the deaths of Aegon V, Duncan the Small and Duncan the Tall as blood sacrifices, since their deaths seem to have been accidental.

Eggs were put in the beds of newly born Targaryens. How are those children supposed to hatch their dragons, if blood sacrifice is required?

Dany did use a blood sacrifice. But Dany's dragons hatching was, as GRRM has put it, a special case.

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Thanks, I thought it was something like that.

Also notice that Pycelle says "Moon tea for..." and Cersi interrupts him by saying "I know what moon tea is for" It's likely that the moon tea is for one of Margery's cousins. Later, he falls in line and lies about who actually needs the moon tea.

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Also notice that Pycelle says "Moon tea for..." and Cersi interrupts him by saying "I know what moon tea is for" It's likely that the moon tea is for one of Margery's cousins. Later, he falls in line and lies about who actually needs the moon tea.

Or for Margaery herself, but not to terminate pregnancies. In a way like the birth control pill can be given to girls who have a lot of physical complaints during their "time of the month". Perhaps moon tea can have similar workings

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Which is the tower that Melisandre sees in fire? She tells Jon its Eastwatch, but she is guessing.

Where is that tower where the battle will

strike hardest?

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