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Angalin

Small questions for ADwD, v.V

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Indeed but more specifically LF

pins the ownership of the dagger on Tyrion, taking advantage of the opportunity to create more suspicion/conflict between the Starks/Lannisters

ETA: Sorry @jon w just realized my post just reiterates what you already said. :)

Ah, yes, but the point I was trying to make was that he wasn't the guy who send the man+knife after Bran. He just took advantage of the situation after it had occurred.

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Since A Dance with Dragons has seen the light of publishing about five years ago and also

since this thread has reached its last or second last page before closing time,
I sugest there'd be no more "Small questions for ADwD v.VI".

Let's at least try to direct small questions towards the main series of the pinned Small Questions threads.

I so hope that works :)

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Ah, yes, but the point I was trying to make was that he wasn't the guy who send the man+knife after Bran. He just took advantage of the situation after it had occurred.

Thanks, all, that makes a lot more sense!

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I have a question which I'm not too sure if it has been asked before as this is my first post. Does anyone have a clue as to who Coldhands is? I had the feeling that it was Benjen Stark as he is wearing the black of the NW and he knows how to find the black gate although you never find out. Could Benjen have found Bloodraven when he disappeared due to having the blood of the first men and then been set the task to bring Bran to BR?

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Can anyone one tell me where Bran is, he went "through" the wall at the Nightfort and went north, passing Craster's Keep and they go through forest, I know they have traveled for a couple of weeks but how fast can they go?  

 

I've looked at maps but I can't find anywhere that would indicate a cave or even weirwood trees, the forests that they're traveling through seem to be pine and sentinals

 

I've re-read Bran's POV a couple of times now and can't work it out - am I missing something 

Thanks for any replies :)

 

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Can anyone one tell me where Bran is, he went "through" the wall at the Nightfort and went north, passing Craster's Keep and they go through forest, I know they have traveled for a couple of weeks but how fast can they go?  

 

I've looked at maps but I can't find anywhere that would indicate a cave or even weirwood trees, the forests that they're traveling through seem to be pine and sentinals

 

I've re-read Bran's POV a couple of times now and can't work it out - am I missing something 

Thanks for any replies :)

 

The Lands of Ice and Fire contains a journey's map, showing how each POV travelled all the way up to Dance. Bran's line (if you envision a map of the area "Beyond the Wall") ends in between the Fist and the start of the Antler River, at the height between the Fist of the First Men (to its left) and Hardhome, to its right.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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The Lands of Ice and Fire contains a journey's map, showing how each POV travelled all the way up to Dance. Bran's line (if you envision a map of the area "Beyond the Wall") ends in between the Fist and the start of the Antler River, at the height between the Fist of the First Men (to its left) and Hardhome, to its right.

Thank you :)

This means that it's possible for Meera, Hodor and Jojen (if he survives) to go back home when it all ends, I don't think Bran can leave now he's there 

 

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On 2/14/2013 at 5:25 AM, The Dornishman's Wife said:

 

Castle Black is south of the Wall.

 

That's why it doesn't have any real fortifications of its own - it doesn't need any against the wildlings cause there's the great big wall between them, and it isn't supposed to need any against the men from the seven kingdoms.

also in book 3, they explain why Castle black has no defenses - stakes, fences, walls, moats, or anything.  This was done deliberately so that Castle Black is less indefensible from an attack from the SOUTH.  The reason is so no Lord Commander can create his own fiefdom independent of the realm (not for long anyway). When/If the Nights Watch  ever gets out of line (remember the ancient tales of the Lord commander that actually BEDDED a female wight, also the traitors of the watch that were buried up to their necks in ice...) then the Warden of the North, or any other Lord, can more easily attack Castle Black and restore the balance of power.  No defenses from the south is meant as "encouragement" because of course,"the nights watch takes no part in wars of the realm". So in book 3 when the wildlings launch their attacks from north, AND  the one by the Therns, from south of the wall, jon Snow has piled up barrels, old wagons and crates of grain etc. thrown up as a hasty defensive line in front of Castle Black, just to slow them down. Recall the wildlings make it to the stairs on the wall, but Snow sets the stairs on fire and burns a lot of them and Snow and his men halt the attack, fr the night...  

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Small question on Feast + Dance:

I'm rereading Cersei's arc in Feast, and in one of her first councils

Qyburn suggests to send a hundred men to the Wall pretending to answer Jon's plea, but actually with instructions to kill him

My question is: do this men actually arrive at the Wall? And

are they part of the Ides of Marsch? Can they possibly be does who convinced him to mutiny?

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1 hour ago, The Egg said:

Small question on Feast + Dance:

I'm rereading Cersei's arc in Feast, and in one of her first councils

Hidden Content

My question is: do this men actually arrive at the Wall? And

Hidden Content

We don't hear about about such a large number of men having been sent by the Iron Throne and arriving at the Wall, so I don't think that Cersei and Qyburn had gotten to that point yet. Remember who else was supposed to go to the Wall:

“The little... Margaery, you mean?” Ser Osney’s ardor was wilting in his breeches. “She’s the king’s wife. Wasn’t there some Kingsguard who lost his head for bedding the king’s wife?”
“Ages ago.” She was his king’s mistress, not his wife, and his head was the only thing he did not lose. Aegon dismembered him piece by piece, and made the woman watch. Cersei did not want Osney dwelling on that ancient unpleasantness, however. “Tommen is not Aegon the Unworthy. Have no fear, he will do as I bid him. I mean for Margaery to lose her head, not you.”
That gave him pause. “Her maidenhead, you mean?”
“That too. Assuming she has still one.” She traced his scars again. “Unless you think Margaery would prove unresponsive to your... charms?”
Osney gave her a wounded look. “She likes me well enough. Them cousins of hers are always teasing with me about my nose. How big it is, and all. The last time Megga did that, Margaery told them to stop and said I had a lovely face.”
“There you are, then.”
“There I am,” the man agreed, in a doubtful tone, “but where am I going to be if she... if I... after we... ?”
“... do the deed?” Cersei gave him a barbed smile. “Lying with a queen is treason. Tommen would have no choice but to send you to the Wall.”
“The Wall?” he said with dismay.
It was all she could do not to laugh. No, best not. Men hate being laughed at. “A black cloak would go well with your eyes, and that black hair of yours.”
“No one returns from the Wall.”
“You will. All you need to do is kill a boy.”
“What boy?”
“A bastard boy in league with Stannis. He’s young and green, and you’ll have a hundred men.”

Kettleblack was afraid, she could smell it on him, but he was too proud to own up to that fear. Men are all alike. “I’ve killed more boys than I can count,” he insisted. “Once this boy is dead, I’d get my pardon from the king?”
“That, and a lordship.” Unless Snow’s brothers hang you first. “A queen must have a consort. One who knows no fear.”
“Lord Kettleblack?” A slow smile spread across his face, and his scars flamed red. “Aye, I like the sound o’ that. A lordly lord...”

 

It sounds like the hundred men were supposed to go with Ser Osney. But, as we know, Osney never went, because after he confessed to the High Septon, he was arrested by the Faith, and Cersei's own arrest soon followed.

So no, it doesn't sound like they left KL yet, and thus, were not involved in Marsh's plan.

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14 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

We don't hear about about such a large number of men having been sent by the Iron Throne and arriving at the Wall, so I don't think that Cersei and Qyburn had gotten to that point yet. Remember who else was supposed to go to the Wall:

“The little... Margaery, you mean?” Ser Osney’s ardor was wilting in his breeches. “She’s the king’s wife. Wasn’t there some Kingsguard who lost his head for bedding the king’s wife?”
“Ages ago.” She was his king’s mistress, not his wife, and his head was the only thing he did not lose. Aegon dismembered him piece by piece, and made the woman watch. Cersei did not want Osney dwelling on that ancient unpleasantness, however. “Tommen is not Aegon the Unworthy. Have no fear, he will do as I bid him. I mean for Margaery to lose her head, not you.”
That gave him pause. “Her maidenhead, you mean?”
“That too. Assuming she has still one.” She traced his scars again. “Unless you think Margaery would prove unresponsive to your... charms?”
Osney gave her a wounded look. “She likes me well enough. Them cousins of hers are always teasing with me about my nose. How big it is, and all. The last time Megga did that, Margaery told them to stop and said I had a lovely face.”
“There you are, then.”
“There I am,” the man agreed, in a doubtful tone, “but where am I going to be if she... if I... after we... ?”
“... do the deed?” Cersei gave him a barbed smile. “Lying with a queen is treason. Tommen would have no choice but to send you to the Wall.”
“The Wall?” he said with dismay.
It was all she could do not to laugh. No, best not. Men hate being laughed at. “A black cloak would go well with your eyes, and that black hair of yours.”
“No one returns from the Wall.”
“You will. All you need to do is kill a boy.”
“What boy?”
“A bastard boy in league with Stannis. He’s young and green, and you’ll have a hundred men.”

Kettleblack was afraid, she could smell it on him, but he was too proud to own up to that fear. Men are all alike. “I’ve killed more boys than I can count,” he insisted. “Once this boy is dead, I’d get my pardon from the king?”
“That, and a lordship.” Unless Snow’s brothers hang you first. “A queen must have a consort. One who knows no fear.”
“Lord Kettleblack?” A slow smile spread across his face, and his scars flamed red. “Aye, I like the sound o’ that. A lordly lord...”

 

It sounds like the hundred men were supposed to go with Ser Osney. But, as we know, Osney never went, because after he confessed to the High Septon, he was arrested by the Faith, and Cersei's own arrest soon followed.

So no, it doesn't sound like they left KL yet, and thus, were not involved in Marsh's plan.

Yes, thank you, I still hadn't got to the scene with Osney, so I didn't remember at all that he was intended to be sent to the Wall after bedding Margaery. Of course, Cersei didn't have time for that, after the High Septon election...

...speaking of which, I'm on my second read and my thought about the foolishness of reforming Swords and Stars hasn't changed in these two years.
I can't believe she asked so little in change of something so big the HS couldn't even dare to hope for, she gave him his wildest dream and asked little more than nothing in change, no to mention that she didn't see the (obvious) harm in having an army of tens of thousands onto which she had no power in her own city. Ok, she thinks she's Tywin Lannister with tits, aye, but that was even more foolish than I remembered.
Sorry for the rant, but here comes my small question: Given that Cersei was the embodiment of stupidity in this particular case, how do you think she should have handled the whole Sparrow thing? Her solution proved to be the worst possible, but it must be given her that the situation wasn't easy at all. And she couldn't drown them all as Tywin did with the Castamere, unfortunately.

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On 28-2-2016 at 2:23 AM, The Egg said:

Yes, thank you, I still hadn't got to the scene with Osney, so I didn't remember at all that he was intended to be sent to the Wall after bedding Margaery. Of course, Cersei didn't have time for that, after the High Septon election...

...speaking of which, I'm on my second read and my thought about the foolishness of reforming Swords and Stars hasn't changed in these two years.
I can't believe she asked so little in change of something so big the HS couldn't even dare to hope for, she gave him his wildest dream and asked little more than nothing in change, no to mention that she didn't see the (obvious) harm in having an army of tens of thousands onto which she had no power in her own city. Ok, she thinks she's Tywin Lannister with tits, aye, but that was even more foolish than I remembered.
Sorry for the rant, but here comes my small question: Given that Cersei was the embodiment of stupidity in this particular case, how do you think she should have handled the whole Sparrow thing? Her solution proved to be the worst possible, but it must be given her that the situation wasn't easy at all. And she couldn't drown them all as Tywin did with the Castamere, unfortunately.

A bit difficult to say. The sparrows are made up out of people believing in the Faith of the Seven who oppose the attacks on septs and deaths of the servants of the Faith and other believers that occured during the War of the Five Kings. That is a war the Iron Throne was involved in, and thus, House Lannister. These people came to the King for protection, but Cersei decided they were the Faith's problem, not her own.

“As for these pink sparrows, so long as they preach no treason they are the Faith’s problem, not ours.”

Instead of offering them protection, Cersei even considers chasing them away.

I may need to use the gold cloaks to chase these sparrows from the city, she was thinking, when Pycelle intruded.

[...]

“They call themselves sparrows,” said Cersei. “A plague upon the land. Our new High Septon will need to deal with them, once he is crowned. If not, I shall deal with them myself.”

Jaime makes a very important observation later on

In Cobbler’s Square two threadbare sparrows were haranguing several hundred smallfolk, crying doom upon the heads of godless men and demon worshipers. The crowd parted for the column. Sparrows and cobblers alike looked on with dull eyes. “They like the smell of roses but have no love for lions,” Jaime observed. “My sister would be wise to take note of that.”

It is the High Septon who takes these sparrows in and feeds them. And while Cersei promises the sparrows that the Iron Throne will protect the Faith, yet almost immediately thereafter tells the High Septon that she wants them out of the city

A small man’s ploy, she thought, amused. “High Holiness,” she said, “these sparrows are frightening the city. I want them gone.”

She believes arming them will lead them to leave the city, but she clearly is mistaken.

 

I'm not sure about the best way to handle the situation. But sending aid to the sparrows, keeping them warm and fed, would most likely have helped Cersei, as well as acting in some way against the attacks on the septs etc. Sending forth men to capture those who attacked the followers of the Faith. If need be, even raise an order to do such herself, under the command of the Iron Throne, and not the High Septon. That way, she wouldn't have needed to "squander Tommen's strength", as Cersei puts it, but she would have shown willingness of the Iron Throne to protect those who were asking for protection.

There probably are more things that she could have done differently. As Jaime notes, "they like the smell of roses, but have no love for lions". He's not specifically talking about the sparrows, of course. There's mostly smallfolk present there. But the important part is, that Margaery has taken effort to gain the love of the smallfolk. 

When she was feeling pious she would leave the castle to pray at Baelor’s Sept. She gave her custom to a dozen different seamstresses, was well-known amongst the city’s goldsmiths, and had even been known to visit the fish market by the Mud Gate for a look at the day’s catch. Wherever she went, the smallfolk fawned on her, and Lady Margaery did all she could to fan their ardor. She was forever giving alms to beggars, buying hot pies off bakers’ carts, and reining up to speak to common tradesmen.

While Cersei did none of those things.. Nor, IIRC, did she ever, before Robert's death.

Had Cersei made similar efforts for the sparrows who sought out the safety of KL, she might have experienced less troubles with the sparrows and the Faith than she experienced. Shown how the Iron Throne mourned for all those who had died. Makes more appearances at the Great Sept. 

But, I don't know if those troubles could entirely be avoided. House Lannister and the King on the Iron Throne did gain a negative reputation.. Tywin due to the Sack of KL, Cersei and Joffrey due to Eddard Stark's execution. The riot at Myrcella's departure, Joffrey's willingness to shoot at smallfolk with his crossbow when they came knocking on the gates.  Margaery's efforts made the smallfolk love Joffrey as well again, but all that happened before won't have been forgotten.

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Hi - I just started reading A Dance with Dragons. I've read a lot in the forums and listened to a lot of podcasts. I don't know if I missed something in the books so I was wondering when Aegon comes up or if I just haven't gotten that far yet. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Nissa said:

Hi - I just started reading A Dance with Dragons. I've read a lot in the forums and listened to a lot of podcasts. I don't know if I missed something in the books so I was wondering when Aegon comes up or if I just haven't gotten that far yet. Thanks!

All I can say is "keep reading" ;) 

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6 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

All I can say is "keep reading" ;) 

Thanks !

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sorry i posted this in general ASoIaF and I guess I should have put it here:

 

Hi guys,

random question but if it has been discussed in a thread elsewhere any handy links would be much appreciated.

I know there's been a brief mention of the Stark warg abilities in this thread already but I've just been re-reading ADwD and there is a passage in a Jon chapter about when he's dreaming as Ghost. In it, it seemed as though he could see where Shaggydog and Nymeria were. Not just sense them but actually see their surroundings (unless I've remembered it wrong!). Obviously with Summer he could not sense him at all.

I am just wondering, it this the only instance where in a warg dream the dreamer has bee able to see not only though the eyes of their own direwolf but of the other direwolves too? is this a Jon ability or is it what makes Ghost different to the others? 

 

 

I am trawling through the previous 20 pages but any quick links to an answer would be lovely :) 

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What are your favorite sources for essays and such? I just finished reading DoD. I've listened to Radio Westeros and History of Westeros. I'm looking for some more material and would love suggestions.

 

Thanks!

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On 22-4-2016 at 8:32 PM, Nissa said:

What are your favorite sources for essays and such? I just finished reading DoD. I've listened to Radio Westeros and History of Westeros. I'm looking for some more material and would love suggestions.

 

Thanks!

In addition to those two, there's also the blog Wars and Politics of Ice and Fire. And the asoiafuniversity tumblr gathers interesting essays and posts made in the asoiaf-fandom.

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