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Angalin

Small questions for ADwD, v.V

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I have a few questions:



Why do people jon snow or anyone else besides dany can be azor ahai reborn, when it is said that azor ahai reborn raises dragons out of stone?


All the being born amidst smoke and salt doesn't matter since there are only 3 dragons raised from actual ''stone'' eggs.



Why don't they close down the walls gates with more ice and rock and seal it off permanently?


The wildlings are already through, the rest will die most likely.


And the others can't go over it.


I'm pretty sure the wights aren't smart enough or capable enough to climb the wall.


And even if they did, it's better to face only the wights than the actual white walkers.

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I have a few questions:

Why do people jon snow or anyone else besides dany can be azor ahai reborn, when it is said that azor ahai reborn raises dragons out of stone?

All the being born amidst smoke and salt doesn't matter since there are only 3 dragons raised from actual ''stone'' eggs.

Why don't they close down the walls gates with more ice and rock and seal it off permanently?

The wildlings are already through, the rest will die most likely.

And the others can't go over it.

I'm pretty sure the wights aren't smart enough or capable enough to climb the wall.

And even if they did, it's better to face only the wights than the actual white walkers.

(1) people believe that Jon can be Azor Ahai reborn, because of the prophecy about the Prince that was Promised, and the fact that many people believe these two prophecies to ba about the same person. So far, Jon doesn't really fit the prophecy, but that could still change. And since Jon is at the Wall, and was preparing to fight against the Others, and since Azor Ahai is supposed to protect the realm against a great threat (aka the Others, though I don't believe they are ever actually mentioned), many people believe it to be Jon.

It is also not certain whether or not Dany is AA reborn, though she meets more of the criteria.

(2) Well, there are still people from the NW on the other side of the Wall. Remember Benjen Stark? There's still hope they'll one day discover what happened to him, and for that, locking yourself out of that area isn't the best move. Also, with the gates sealed, the NW will no longer know what is happening at the other side of the Wall. And with a huge battle comming up, that's not the way to go.

Though there's a lot to say for sealing of the gates, the problem with not knowing what's happening at the north side of the Wall is the reason Jon uses not to seal them.

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I agree on not knowing what will happen north of the wall.


But lets be honest, benjen is most likely not alive anymore, and even if he is, the life of one isn't as important as the entire realm.



Also, it doesn't really matter what threat or battle will come because we all know, it's about the others, and they can't pass the wall.


And the wights, highly doubt they can climb that huge wall with the small intelligence they have, and wights are a lot easier to beat than white walkers.


I think it would've been smarter to seal it off since the only reason they didn't before was because of the wildlings, but those are no longer a factor anymore.


Ofcourse it wouldn't make a great story line, but that's just my thoughts anyway.



Thanks for replying.


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I agree that Benjen is mostly likely dead, yes, but I am still hoping Jon or (most likely) Bran, will discover what has happened to him.


I have never read about wights climbing the Wall, but it would add an interesting factor to the fight, now wouldn't it?



Also, as per Jon's way of thinking, there's a lot we don't know about the wights and the White Walkers, and every wildling that dies north of the Wall, will probably become a wight. If no wildlings can pass through the Wall anymore, the army of undead will only grow bigger. And than what will happen if the wights or the White Walkers turn out to be capable of doing things that we don't know of yet, that will help them across the Wall? There will be a huge army of undead on the move then, but because the gates weren't sealed, several thousand wildlings could come south, and the wight army won't get any of those people.



Who knows? Perhaps GRRM didn't seal the gates because Jon needs to go north one final time or something. Perhaps we'll find out in WoW.


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Don't really matter.... If the sealed shut, then how do they stop the "dead things in the water"??

Just finished a reread. I missed a lot the first time though (okay, i was skipping entire POVs). I find this thing about dead things in the water interesting. Does this mean drowned persons can be reanimated?

Questions that cannot be answered, but only posed -- has it always been so? Does it not happen south of the Wall - does the Magic of the Wall extend into the Sea?

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Just finished a reread. I missed a lot the first time though (okay, i was skipping entire POVs). I find this thing about dead things in the water interesting. Does this mean drowned persons can be reanimated?

Questions that cannot be answered, but only posed -- has it always been so? Does it not happen south of the Wall - does the Magic of the Wall extend into the Sea?

Dead things in the sea... Just made my head sore lol... I don't know if they are just dead things or are reanimated corpse,

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Just finished a reread. I missed a lot the first time though (okay, i was skipping entire POVs). I find this thing about dead things in the water interesting. Does this mean drowned persons can be reanimated?

Questions that cannot be answered, but only posed -- has it always been so? Does it not happen south of the Wall - does the Magic of the Wall extend into the Sea?

The way I see it, they'll either be dead wildlings who might have tried to sneak passed the Wall by swimming, and they drowned because they aren't good swimmers, or because the weather was too rough. Or they'll be dead wildings who have become wights, and who will float in the water during the day, and come back to life during the night (because, for as far as I have noticed, the wights only appear during the night, yes?)

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The way I see it, they'll either be dead wildlings who might have tried to sneak passed the Wall by swimming, and they drowned because they aren't good swimmers, or because the weather was too rough. Or they'll be dead wildings who have become wights, and who will float in the water during the day, and come back to life during the night (because, for as far as I have noticed, the wights only appear during the night, yes?)

Lol... Yes, the wights come at night or the night comes with the wights... But, as for the floating wights?? It makes no sense! They don't like the light! It hurts them

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I believe there is a passage in which, while considering his diseased hand, Griff thinks something along the lines of "I should've let the dwarf drown... I told him to stay away from the Stone Men!" The impression I got in my reading was that the condition of his hand and the rescue of Tyrion were connected.

Isn't it possible that Griff had been infected before saving Tyrion, but was somehow convinced Tyrion got infected when falling into the water. He may feel sorry for Tyrion who'd eventually start showing symptoms of greyscale, too, and he'd wish he had let him drown instead - in his opinion death by drowning may be preferable to living (and eventually dying) with greyscale. Do we know for a fact that Tyrion is not infected?

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Isn't it possible that Griff had been infected before saving Tyrion, but was somehow convinced Tyrion got infected when falling into the water. He may feel sorry for Tyrion who'd eventually start showing symptoms of greyscale, too, and he'd wish he had let him drown instead - in his opinion death by drowning may be preferable to living (and eventually dying) with greyscale. Do we know for a fact that Tyrion is not infected?

Shouldn't Tyrion have started to show symptoms? He has no patches of grey, dying skin, or dying nails. It could be that the disease is starting from the inside, but somehow, I think that that was a joke they made to Tyrion, more than an actual option. Griff has already lost the function of several fingers, and the disease is creeping up further. Tyrion doesn't have anything showing. And remember, Tyrion has been treated, but Griff, since no one thought he was in danger, didn't receive any treatment. Perhaps Tyrion was cured, and Griff had the bad luck of being infected. I think that once the disease starts to show, you have no chance of beating it, only a chance of slowing down the process.

Edit: Welcome to the forum, btw!

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Shouldn't Tyrion have started to show symptoms? He has no patches of grey, dying skin, or dying nails. It could be that the disease is starting from the inside, but somehow, I think that that was a joke they made to Tyrion, more than an actual option. Griff has already lost the function of several fingers, and the disease is creeping up further. Tyrion doesn't have anything showing. And remember, Tyrion has been treated, but Griff, since no one thought he was in danger, didn't receive any treatment. Perhaps Tyrion was cured, and Griff had the bad luck of being infected. I think that once the disease starts to show, you have no chance of beating it, only a chance of slowing down the process.

Edit: Welcome to the forum, btw!

Thank you for the kind welcome! :)

I see what you mean, but isn't this theory based on the idea that JC only got infected as he was saving Tyrion? That is to say: if they would be infected at the same time, they would probably start exhibiting symptoms simultaneously, as well - I see that. But if JC had been infected before saving Tyrion, maybe quite a while earlier, then the symptoms of greyscale seem to develop very slowly. If that's the case, Tyrion still has plenty of time to start experiencing grey dying skin etc.

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The bacteria or whatever causes greyscale could've been on tyrion but simply not affect him due to whatever reason.

Put 2 people in a room with a common cold virus, only one of them will get sick.

Some people are just more resistent than others.

Atleast that's the only explanation i can think of.

Edited by hodorisazorahaireborn

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The bacteria or whatever causes greyscale could've been on tyrion but simply not affect him due to whatever reason.

Put 2 people in a room with a common cold virus, only one of them will get sick.

Some people are just more resistent than others.

Atleast that's the only explanation i can think of.

Well, everything depends on person's immune system, if it is strong the virus could have no effect at all, while the other person doesn't have that resistance.

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Thank you for the kind welcome! :)

I see what you mean, but isn't this theory based on the idea that JC only got infected as he was saving Tyrion? That is to say: if they would be infected at the same time, they would probably start exhibiting symptoms simultaneously, as well - I see that. But if JC had been infected before saving Tyrion, maybe quite a while earlier, then the symptoms of greyscale seem to develop very slowly. If that's the case, Tyrion still has plenty of time to start experiencing grey dying skin etc.

But Tyrion has received treatment from the beginning. When he finally wakes up after having almost drowned, he's being told that Lemore has been washing him with special stuf (I can't remember what it was right now, vinegar or something), to prevent the Greyscale from happening. JonCon and his gang hadn't been in any area where they could have contracted greyscale, so where would Jon have gotten sick in the first place?

Indeed, Jon got infected because he saved Tyrion. Tyrion had fallen into the river, and the river was full of infected people, and probably also filled with whatever virus/bacteria causes the infection. Jon didn't necessarily contract the disease from Tyrion, he had to reach into the water and pull Tyrion out (which could also be the reason why the disease is starting in his hand. Perhaps this is the hand he pulled Tyrion out with?). Tyrion has been washed many times, to keep the greyscale away, but Jon hasn't done anything, probably because he thought that since he hadn't been in contact with one of the stone men, he wasn't in danger. Tyrion had been in contact with the stone men. But the infection is everywhere around them. It could also have been on Tyrion's clothes.

Tyrion could have passed the greyscale on to JonCon, but since Tyrion received treatment and JonCon didn't, I say this is the most reasonable explanation we have... That is, until Jon tells us more about Greyscale and how he got it in WoW. Jon is now also soaking his hand in vinegar, to slow the greyscale process, as Lemore told Tyrion to keep doing. Tyrion has gotten Lucky. JonCon didn't.

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But Tyrion has received treatment from the beginning. When he finally wakes up after having almost drowned, he's being told that Lemore has been washing him with special stuf (I can't remember what it was right now, vinegar or something), to prevent the Greyscale from happening. JonCon and his gang hadn't been in any area where they could have contracted greyscale, so where would Jon have gotten sick in the first place?

Indeed, Jon got infected because he saved Tyrion. Tyrion had fallen into the river, and the river was full of infected people, and probably also filled with whatever virus/bacteria causes the infection. Jon didn't necessarily contract the disease from Tyrion, he had to reach into the water and pull Tyrion out (which could also be the reason why the disease is starting in his hand. Perhaps this is the hand he pulled Tyrion out with?). Tyrion has been washed many times, to keep the greyscale away, but Jon hasn't done anything, probably because he thought that since he hadn't been in contact with one of the stone men, he wasn't in danger. Tyrion had been in contact with the stone men. But the infection is everywhere around them. It could also have been on Tyrion's clothes.

Tyrion could have passed the greyscale on to JonCon, but since Tyrion received treatment and JonCon didn't, I say this is the most reasonable explanation we have... That is, until Jon tells us more about Greyscale and how he got it in WoW. Jon is now also soaking his hand in vinegar, to slow the greyscale process, as Lemore told Tyrion to keep doing. Tyrion has gotten Lucky. JonCon didn't.

Thanks for the clarification! I did get the fact that JC got infected by the water, not from Tyrion, I was just wondering whether we knew for sure JC hadn't been carrying greyscale from *before* saving Tyrion. I have no idea where he'd get infected, of course, it was just a thought.

Do we know why JC didn't get precautionary treatment for greyscale after being in contact with the water the way Tyrion did? He didn't touch the stone men, that's true, but wouldn't it be reasonable to be treated, just in case?

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Thanks for the clarification! I did get the fact that JC got infected by the water, not from Tyrion, I was just wondering whether we knew for sure JC hadn't been carrying greyscale from *before* saving Tyrion. I have no idea where he'd get infected, of course, it was just a thought.

Do we know why JC didn't get precautionary treatment for greyscale after being in contact with the water the way Tyrion did? He didn't touch the stone men, that's true, but wouldn't it be reasonable to be treated, just in case?

We don't know why for sure, but his personality has something to do with it, I think. In his first chapter, The Lost Lord, he thinks to himself:

"He was sick of hiding, sick of waiting, sick of caution. I do not have time enough for caution."

Perhaps he didn't want to be cautious, which he should have been. They only worried about Tyrion because he had been in contact with the stone men, but JonCon hadn't. And since he was tired of being cautious, he didn't treat himself with the vinegar.

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Perhaps he didn't want to be cautious, which he should have been. They only worried about Tyrion because he had been in contact with the stone men, but JonCon hadn't. And since he was tired of being cautious, he didn't treat himself with the vinegar.

Good point, and thanks for the quote!

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We don't know why for sure, but his personality has something to do with it, I think. In his first chapter, The Lost Lord, he thinks to himself:

"He was sick of hiding, sick of waiting, sick of caution. I do not have time enough for caution."

Perhaps he didn't want to be cautious, which he should have been. They only worried about Tyrion because he had been in contact with the stone men, but JonCon hadn't. And since he was tired of being cautious, he didn't treat himself with the vinegar.

Tyrion not contracting Greyscale even though being fully submerged in the water and tackling a stone man and JC getting it even though he only reached in to pull Tyrion out could be seen as support for Tyrion being a Targaryen. Targaryen's are known to have resistance to sicknesses . Its hard to imagine that Tyrion wouldnt get greyscale otherwise. Even with whatever treatments he may have gotten right afterwards. He was drowning and would of swallowed lungs full of water.

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Tyrion not contracting Greyscale even though being fully submerged in the water and tackling a stone man and JC getting it even though he only reached in to pull Tyrion out could be seen as support for Tyrion being a Targaryen. Targaryen's are known to have resistance to sicknesses . Its hard to imagine that Tyrion wouldnt get greyscale otherwise. Even with whatever treatments he may have gotten right afterwards. He was drowning and would of swallowed lungs full of water.







I see what you're saying. Do we have any proof that Targaryens are immune to sickness, however? Daeron II died because of sickness, and so did Prince Valarr and Prince Matarys. And all the other Targaryen kings who died young, like Jaehaerys, or Aenys, how about them? Did most certainly did not die in battle, so what else killed them?



Indeed he was drowning, and he swallowed a lot of water, but did Lemore force the water from Tyrions lungs. When you are drowning, I'm not sure how much water actually goes into your lungs, and how much water goes into your digestive system (like water should go). I did a quick Wikipedia search on drowning, and it seems that most water actually goes into your stomach, and only very little goes into your lungs. However, since Lemore has been said to have forced the water from Tyrions lungs, I am inclined to believe that Tyrion had more water in his lungs than one usually does when drowning. My conclusion: I'm really not sure, though if you would like to read it, here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#Water_inhalation



So again, JonCon must have gotten the disease from saving Tyrion, how else would he have gotten it? It might be that Tyrions immune system is better than JonCon's, and perhaps that was a factor in why Tyrion didn't get sick. And I have read before that many people say that Targaryens cannot get sick, but I can't remember reading anything about that. I am interested in reading it though, so perhaps you could provide some links to threads or explain the theory yourself? :)

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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