Small questions for ADwD, v.V

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In the first quote, @Rhaenys_Targarye, in the first quote ;)

My post predated my first cup of coffee of the day.. I should learn not to post until I have coffee in my hand..

But thankfully, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of emphasize every now and then :)

Edited August 17, 2014 by Rhaenys_Targaryen

[Jon Weirgaryen]

No coffee, that's harsh. Even with coffee at hand I keep misreading stuff all the time.

And you have been working with the remains of the LonCon reports in the other thread I assume.

Never mind. I did some archaeology for the other Small Questions thread and thought I might post it adequately for this very thread.

I think whoever creates the next Small Questions for ADwD thread my use this for the first post.

--------snip--------

Small Questions for ADwD threads of the past:

[ADWD SPOILERS] Small Questions (ADwD I) 11-07-31 (ISO8601 thread start YY-MM-DD)

Small Questions on ADwD II (ADwD II) 11-08-24

Small Questions for ADwD III (ADwD III) 11-11-11

Small Questions for ADwD IV (ADwD IV) 12-03-09

Small Questions for ADwD, v.V. (ADwD V) 13-02-10

Other Small Questions threads of the past:

A Thread for Small Questions 08-02-09 (ISO8601 thread start YY-MM-DD)

A Thread for Small Questions II 09-12-27

A Thread for Small Questions III 10-05-19

A Thread for Small Questions IV 10-09-01

A Thread for Small Questions V 10-11-22

A Thread for Small Questions VI 11-02-10

A Thread for Small Questions VII 11-04-11

A Thread for Small Questions VIII 11-05-19

A Thread for Small Questions IX 11-06-13

A Thread for Small Questions X 11-07-01

A Thread for Small Questions XI 11-07-28

Small Questions XII 11-10-10

A Thread for Small Questions XII 11-10-10

A Thread for Small Questions XIII 11-12-13

A Thread for Small Questions XIV 12-02-04

A Thread for Small Questions XV 12-03-11

A Thread for Small Questions XVI 12-04-09

A Thread for Small Questions XVII 12-05-01

A Thread for Small Questions XVIII 12-05-29

A Thread for Small Questions XIX 12-06-23

A Thread for Small Questions XX 12-07-15

A Thread for Small Questions XXI 12-08-01

The thread for small questions, version XXI 12-08-01

Thread for Small Questions v. xxii 12-08-14

Again With the Small Questions 12-09-04

More Small Questions, Really? 12-10-12

This Small Question Thing 12-11-06

Small Questions v.10000 (1000 zero) 13-01-01

Small Questions v.10001 (1000 one) 13-01-20

Small Questions v.10002 (1000 two) 13-02-01

Small Questions v.10003 (1000 three) 12-02-25

Small Questions v.10004 (1000 four)

Small Questions v.10005 (1000 five)

Small Questions v.10006 (1000 six)

Small Questions v.10007 (1000 seven)

Small Questions v.10008 (1000 eight)

Small Questions v.10009 (1000 nine)

Small Questions v.10010 (100 ten)

Small Questions v.10011 (100 eleven)

Small Questions v.10012 (100 twelve)

{version number jumps one for obscure reasons}

Small Questions v.10014 (100 fourteen)

Small Questions v.10015 (100 fifteen)

Small Questions v.10016 (100 sixteen)

Small Questions v.10017 (100 seventeen)

Small Questions v.10018 (100 eightteen)

Small Questions v.10019 (100 nineteen)

Small Questions v.10020 (100 twenty)

Small Questions v.10021 (100 twenty-One)

Small Questions v.10022 (100 twenty-two)

Small Questions v.10023 (100 twenty-three)

Small Questions v.10024 (100 twenty-four)

Small Questions v.10025 (100 twenty-five)

Small Questions v.10026 (100 twenty-six)

Small Questions v.10027 (100 twenty-seven)

{version number jumps 50 for obscure reasons}

Small Questions v.10078 (100 seventy-eight)

Small Questions v.10079 (100 eventy-ńine)

Small Questions v.10080 (100 esighty)

Small Questions v.10081 (100 eighty-one)

Small Questions v.10082 (100 eighty-two)

Small Questions v.10083 (100 eighty-three)

Small Questions v.10084 (100 eighty-four)

Small Questions v.10085 (100 eighty-five)

Small Questions v.10086 (100 eighty-six)

Small Questions v.10087 (100 eighty-seven)

Small Questions v.10088 (100 eighty-eight)

Small Questions v.10089 (100 eighty-nine)

eta: updated!

Edited September 8, 2014 by Jon Weirgaryen

[Tywinelle]

Blasphemy! :)

No, it is the following and the heat of Drogon's body burning her hands and thighs:

ADwD 52 Daenerys IX (end of chapter)

ADwD 71 Daenerys X (top of the chapter)

So how did the dragon riding Targaryens in the past do it without getting burnt between their legs? The mind boggles. ;-)

[Jon Weirgaryen]

So how did the dragon riding Targaryens in the past do it without getting burnt between their legs? The mind boggles. ;-)

By wearing asbestos trousers or sitting asbetos saddles? ;) I may have been mistaken about Drogons "skin" burning hers? In that case, it was only the melting iron spear she was grabbing to get it out of Drogon's body. Still, I am only in ADwD 52 Danaerys IX in my re-read, I'll get to the dragon-riding chapters eventually.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Jon Weirgaryen

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Nowhere is it stated that it was Drogons flesh that burned her. All that is stated that the spear was so hot that it had partly melted (which means that it was extremely hot, like I said before), and that the blood coming out of the wound that the spear had created was extremely hot (most likely it was the blood that caused the spear to melt). With a spear so hot that it can melt, covered in hot (very hot) blood, Dany grabbing the spear might have been the best thing for Drogon, but that was, it seems to me, what burned her hands.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

One more:

Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin.

No fire, but Drogon's hot breath blisters her skin in ADwD 52 Daenerys IX (near the end of the chapter)

[Giant of Tarth]

Can anyone tell me where I can find out more about Jenny of Oldstones and what happened at Summerhall?

[HexMachina]

Can anyone tell me where I can find out more about Jenny of Oldstones and what happened at Summerhall?

You can't. We don't know yet.

[Giant of Tarth]

Thanx. Was hoping there was something in another story.

[Tywinelle]

Ok, you guys I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies and flaws in GRRM's writing. Someone either is or isn't resistant to heat/fire/dragon's blistering breath etc. From the beginning there were indications that Daenerys was resistant to the effects of heat and explaining her ability to survive a funeral pyre as a one off magical event is a bit of a cop out in my opinion.

When she was in the pit with Drogon, there was no mention of her getting burnt by his breath or by the hot spear she pulled out of his body. As a matter of fact, she just carries on unaffected by the heat. When we encounter he again she's covered in pussy blisters. It's flawed writing.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

It's flawed writing.

And the small question is?

I differ. Some things, a logical conclusion for instance, are given to understood. Not everything is explicitly mentioned. To allow for some of the characters better to understand matters, and some to misunderstand them, ambiguities work rather well in the books. And the fire resistance the readers have made up. Magic happens, magic and dragons, and Dany of course has to survive it, as some hero in a detective story might survive running through a shower of bullets flying around... once. But not every time around. Ned should have made it perfectly clear ASOIAF is not a superhero comic.

[Tywinelle]

No the readers have not made up the fire/heat resistance. Read over the Daenerys chapters from the beginning.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

No the readers have not made up the fire/heat resistance. Read over the Daenerys chapters from the beginning.

heat - yes, fire - no.

Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

eta: stolen for this

Edited August 22, 2014 by Jon Weirgaryen

[HexMachina]

No the readers have not made up the fire/heat resistance. Read over the Daenerys chapters from the beginning.

She isn't resistant to fire. More heat tolerant (i.e. hot baths) maybe, yes. But not fire resistant. That is why she is blistered and burned at the end of a Dance with Dragons. The pyre was a magical, one time thing.

[Lord Snowflakes]

the dragon eggs did the magic for her

[HexMachina]

the dragon eggs did the magic for her

What? I'm.not sure what you're getting at here. Dany hatched the dragon eggs, making up the magic as she went along, as per GRRM's word in an SSM.

[Arya Havinfun]

Ok, you guys I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies and flaws in GRRM's writing. Someone either is or isn't resistant to heat/fire/dragon's blistering breath etc. From the beginning there were indications that Daenerys was resistant to the effects of heat and explaining her ability to survive a funeral pyre as a one off magical event is a bit of a cop out in my opinion.

When she was in the pit with Drogon, there was no mention of her getting burnt by his breath or by the hot spear she pulled out of his body. As a matter of fact, she just carries on unaffected by the heat. When we encounter he again she's covered in pussy blisters. It's flawed writing.

Obviously this heat resistance thing isn't really a small question!

However, if you do a really close reading of the whole fire pyre episode at the end of AGoT (including the days before, when Drogo is sick and Mirri Maz Duur is commanded to do anything & everything in her power, including blood magic, to keep Drogo alive and healed, and Dany goes into labor and loses her baby, etc.), you'll see that Mirri Maz Duur proclaims she will not scream, and then proceeds to sing some weird song. Ultimately she does scream, and burns to death, while Dany wakes up next morning just fine, only bald, and nursing dragons.

But if you pay close attention, you'll observe that the firey pyre is way too hot for Daenerys to approach right away, then as Mirri is singing, something changes, apparently in concert with the loud cracking/popping sounds of eggs breaking, one.by.one.

Apparently Mirri was singing a spell to keep herself protected from the fire, but as the eggs were hatching the direction of the magic spell she sang was shifted, so that Mirri's fire protection was shifted over to Dany instead. Mirri died, Dany nursed her dragon babies, and the fate of Terros was changed.

Why did the target of the fire protection spell change from Mirri to Dany? I suspect the dragons had something to do with that, especially as one of them has the soul of Rhaego, who Mirri switched from being born healthy and strong as the prophesied Dothraki STMTW to a fossilized dragon abortion. Is this a complete explanation? Probably not, as even without the one shot spell, Dany is a lot more heat tolerant than anyone I've ever met. Her dragon dreams where she communes with the future Drogon are quite "steamy" one might say, and may well be the source of her particular ability.

But I wouldn't go bad mouthing GRRM's skills as a story teller, as he's working with a lot more complexities than are immediately obvious in so many situations. And he's really good at those. Not perfect, because he does make some minor mistakes (eye colors and hip dimensions being among the more famous/notorious examples), but nevertheless really good. He just doesn't make it easy to see what he's done unless you pay very sharp attention. That way he rewards his most diligent readers with extra reading value. And his less diligent readers still get a good magical yarn without bothering to delve into the depths of detail he provides.

As to the spear she pulled from Drogon's body, yes, her hands were burned from that, but not too deeply, as she only held the spear for a few seconds at most. And I'm sure you've heard of Real Life situations where for brief moments normal ordinary people in extreme situations were temporarily unaware of the pain or seriousness of their wounds because their minds were focused on the immediate issues of surviving the present danger. That's not bad writing, that's actually normal description. Do some folks fail in those situations? Sure, you bet. But not everyone does, even folks who aren't superheroes in great fantasy epics. I've met several over the years.

[HexMachina]

*snip*

Or you know, it was a unique, one-time magical event, like GRRM said...

That doesn't make it bad writing or anything, some people on the boards just seem to have issues with the magical elements of a fantasy series.

[swordinthenight]

The red comet, dont forget. When was the last time the red comet was mentioned? In all of ADWD I dont belive it was. The other books its been too long to recall... I'll check on the wiki...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well, the comet did not remain in the sky for a full year :P IIRC, Jon and Arya kept mentioning the star the longest.