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Edric's telling of Ned and Ashara


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Edric mentions that Ned and Ashara fell in love at Harrenhal. But there seems to be support for the theory Brandon was the Stark in question.

My question is, why was Edric told this story of Ned and Ashara if it was not true? He has already been told Wylla was Jon's mother, so they are not selling that story. Or is it just true that they fell in love at the tournament?

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Edric mentions that Ned and Ashara fell in love at Harrenhal. But there seems to be support for the theory Brandon was the Stark in question.

My question is, why was Edric told this story of Ned and Ashara if it was not true? He has already been told Wylla was Jon's mother, so they are not selling that story. Or is it just true that they fell in love at the tournament?

I think its established that Ned loved or at least had a crush on Ashara Dayne regardless of who's the father of who.

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Edric mentions that Ned and Ashara fell in love at Harrenhal. But there seems to be support for the theory Brandon was the Stark in question.

My question is, why was Edric told this story of Ned and Ashara if it was not true? He has already been told Wylla was Jon's mother, so they are not selling that story. Or is it just true that they fell in love at the tournament?

My guess is that Ned took the fall for his brother. His brother was betrayed to Catelyn Tully so he took the blame for Brandon's and Ashara's affair which lead to her pregnancy. This helps Tuly and Starks keep more of their honor.

What people are told and the truth are two very different things.

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I think its established that Ned loved or at least had a crush on Ashara Dayne regardless of who's the father of who.

Sure, we know Ned at least had a crush, Edric implies Ashara and Ned were in love. Not Brandon or any other character. If you believe Ned/Ashara that's an answer but for people who believe differently, what's the explanation.

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My question is, why was Edric told this story of Ned and Ashara if it was not true? He has already been told Wylla was Jon's mother, so they are not selling that story. Or is it just true that they fell in love at the tournament?

People tell stories. Stories were told in Winterfell that Ashara was Jon's mother. Doesn't mean it's true. May mean that there is some element of truth in the story. In order to come up with a believable story that Ned and Ashara loved or copulated, there needed to be known instances of them in one another's company. They were both at Harrenhal, so there's that. Perhaps they met in another instance as well.

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People tell stories. Stories were told in Winterfell that Ashara was Jon's mother. Doesn't mean it's true. May mean that there is some element of truth in the story. In order to come up with a believable story that Ned and Ashara loved or copulated, there needed to be known instances of them in one another's company. They were both at Harrenhal, so there's that. Perhaps they met in another instance as well.

Do you think Edric would asked Allyria about these rumours? Granted it's not confirmation but they were sisters. Then again, I don't think it's mentioned how far apart they were age wise

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Do you think Edric would asked Allyria about these rumours? Granted it's not confirmation but they were sisters. Then again, I don't think it's mentioned how far apart they were age wise

Maybe. Allyria and Ashara appear to be rather far apart in age. Ashara was closer to Ned's age at Harrenhal. Allyria is barely betrothed in AGOT. I don't really see Allyria knowing what's going on. I would guess that the stories at Starfall came the same way the stories in Winterfell did...via gossip in the kitchens or yards.

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I think that no matter who dishonored Ashara, she and Ned felt in love in Harrenhal. But I do think (and hope) that her baby was Ned's and when she lost them both she killed herself.
This is also what I think. I also dont think Brandon had anything to do with Ashara.
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Maybe. Allyria and Ashara appear to be rather far apart in age. Ashara was closer to Ned's age at Harrenhal. Allyria is barely betrothed in AGOT. I don't really see Allyria knowing what's going on. I would guess that the stories at Starfall came the same way the stories in Winterfell did...via gossip in the kitchens or yards.

I guess it depends on whether they were waiting for her to reach and appropriate age or because she was ruling starfall during Edrics minority. Most likely she was only a kid when this went on

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I guess it depends on whether they were waiting for her to reach and appropriate age or because she was ruling starfall during Edrics minority. Most likely she was only a kid when this went on

Could be a bit of both, but she's been betrothed to Beric for years. I think it more likely that she was not yet of age either so ruling during Edric's minority doesn't really seem the reason they aren't married. She can still be regent of Starfall when married. Or more than likely, there'd be a maester or castellan taking charge, especially considering it was a time of peace before AGOT.

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My own leanings are that Eddard and Ashara did the deed at Harrenhal. Maybe the child she lost was his.

I do not think Edric Dayne was told everything, but his account that Eddard and Ashara fell in love sounds genuine.

Was Ahara "dishonoured" by Brandon Stark ? No, I doubt it. It seems to me his betrothal to Catelyn cut short what he had going on with Lady Barbrey (Ryswell, at the time). There's no evidence Brandon had anything going on with Ashara, and the speculation it may have been forced is just empty guesswork. If it was forced a certain "Bold" white knight would have cut Brandon to ribbons (not to mention her brother). There's nothing that says Brandon would do something like that (despite knowing how his own brother felt about her), and if he did, Eddard is not likely to forgive that either.

So I'm going to just stick with the more Occam's Razor style explanation: Eddard and Ashara did the horizontal dance too. Her "dishonour" was getting pregnant from it, and of course Brandon's death, Eddard's betrothal to Catelyn, and the rebellion meant Ashara couldn't marry him at that point, even if they both wanted to. And to top it off, after marrying another woman (and getting her pregnant on the first try too), he slays her brother. Reason enough to throw herself into the sea ? Probably.

This still leaves room for the theories that either her child was A) stillborn, or else B ) wasn't and could be various people.

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Maybe. Allyria and Ashara appear to be rather far apart in age. Ashara was closer to Ned's age at Harrenhal. Allyria is barely betrothed in AGOT. I don't really see Allyria knowing what's going on. I would guess that the stories at Starfall came the same way the stories in Winterfell did...via gossip in the kitchens or yards.
Don't forget about Ned's father or Ashara and Allyria's mother.
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The one thing that bothered me all this time is how Edric found out about Ned/Ashara or even that Jon and he are `brothers by milk`. I mean, especially this about `brothers`, it isn`t something you expect to be public knowledge. Did Wylla told Edric all of this? I doubt it...If Wylla isn`t Jon`s mother, she had to be his wetnurse, and therefore she would never mention Jon. She is supposed to keep a secret, right?

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Neither Edric nor his sister have first hand accounts of what happened, they were too young. My problem with Edric's story has always been the sudden incongruity of this tragic tale of love between Ned and Ashara and then he casually throws out the bit about Wylla being Jon's mother. Why in the world would he not assume Ashara was Jon's mother? I think the stillbirth is the answer.

As I said, the Dayne siblings are too young to know firsthand. Whether they got the story from servant rumors or if this is official Dayne family lore makes no matter. The point is the stillbirth had to have been known about amongst the people of Starfall. Otherwise, there would be no logical reason for Edric to assert Wylla as mom.

I'm firmly in the camp of Brandon doing the "dishonoring" of Ashara at Harrenhal. Selmy specifically cites Ashara's grief for the dishonorer as one of the reasons for her suicide. Ned was obviously still alive...

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A cruel truth may be that Ned and Ashara DID fall in love but Brandon being Brandon maybe he wanted her for himself. Brandon was the heir to Winterfell maybe Ashara played her hand and chose Brandon over Ned, and lost. Maybe it was Brandon's child and after she lost the baby she realized that her betrayal had not only cost her Ned but with Brandon dead she had absolutely nothing now. It wouldn't be the first time a guy or girl reached for the stars and fell face first in the mud.

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I think Brandon was faithful to his Ryswell girl.

I also dont think he would screw over Ned since Ned held him in such high regards as to give him a statue in the crypts.

Also, Ashara is too lowborn to be trying to marry Brandon anyway.

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