Edric's telling of Ned and Ashara

[eggs]

He's no wisecracker, but there's some quiet warmth to him, some charisma that made his bannermen love him. I'd say he radiates some quiet fortitude, some stoicness, that inspires people. But on the other hand, he's rather surly when people poke fun at him, and Robert has remarked that he should take the hedgehog for his sigil, given how prickly he is. And then there's the cold grey eyes that can put off many a stranger. But at Quentyn's age, with all the insecurity of youth, I don't think Ned was much different from Quentyn in terms of personality, particularly with Brandon around. The KotLT story identifies him as the quiet wolf.

Arent remarkable eyes usually a good thing? Looking back, Quentyn probably isnt a good comparison since he was incompetent and uncharismatic to the extreme. I reckon young Ned was probably a softer version of Jon Snow.

edit: how the hell did Ned and Robert become so close? opposites attract?

[Mini Ghost]

They were both wards of Jon Arryn right? They must have gotten close like bros .

[Mini Ghost]

Wylla was from the North. How did she end up in Dorne to be Ned Dayne's wetnurse?

[VaramyrSixchins]

Different Wylla. The Wylla in question is described by Edric as having served the Daynes "for ages"...

[drigoly]

GRRM likes to troll, so much that he puts a new candidate for the mother of Jon in each book.

[Trident full of Dogs]

I think its established that Ned loved or at least had a crush on Ashara Dayne regardless of who's the father of who.

Yes. And I don't think Brandon, if he was a good brother, would have hit on Ashara knowing Ned liked her.

He spoke to her on Ned's behalf, so Ned could dance with her.

Unless Brandon was one lousy brother, I don't think he tried to romance Ashara.

[Where The Weirwood Weeps]

1. GRRM said that Brandon's activities should have resulted in (a) Snow(s), although he did not gave an indication of whether they were alive or not). And Lady Dustin is childless... so the child came from another Northerner or Ashara.

2. Based off of Lady Dustin's story of their relationship, he was the type to go after what he wanted. He was the heir and first born son of the Warden of the North and Winterfell.

3. He saw that his little brother wanted to dance with the beautiful woman. That is no indication of the wish to begin a courtship on Ned's part. At least for a person who cannot read minds.

4. On the theoretical chance that Brandon did sleep with Ashara (and I'm inclined to believe so) he may seen himself as free to sleep with whoever he wanted until his marriage. Kind of like Daenerys before her second marriage, which was a political one.

5. Barristan Selmy's evidence: The comments about young girls' preference of fire vs mud; the his internally cold way of referring to whichever "Stark" dishonored her vs how he behaved with Eddard Stark;

My only question is where Sir Barristan get his information from? How did he about he know about a stillborn baby girl with Ashara was in Dorne and he was off fighting against Robert's Rebellion?

If R+L=J is true, lies could have easily been fed to Edric Dayne by someone in the household about Eddard/Wylla/Jon to protect Jon. Even if R+L=J isn't, part of what he has been told could have been meant to cover a more tragic story about an aunt he never knew. The best sources is the KotLT story, Lady Dustin, and stuff from SSM (I hope).

[dragontamer]

When comes to Ashara and what happened to her I believe there are a lot mixed and controversial information.

In the same passage that Edric tells Arya that her father and Ashara were in love he also admits that Jon Snow’s mother is Wylla, a servant girl of the Daynes. How does this make sense? At least one statement, maybe even both, has to be a lie. If Eddard was indeed in love with Ashara why on earth would he have a child with her servant?

What I think is that Martin uses again the unreliable narrator trick. I read an old interview where he said that he gradually reveals information about past events in each book and that through the unraveling, things we believe to be true may well prove to be not so true after all. Also through correspondence mail he used an example of Sansa misremembering Joffrey’s sword name and told that it was a minor lapse in memory to open the way for a much bigger.

What I mean to say is that apart from some gossiping we have no actual proof of anything romantic between Eddard and Ashara or Brandon and Ashara as a matter of fact.

[Batman]

Arent remarkable eyes usually a good thing? Looking back, Quentyn probably isnt a good comparison since he was incompetent and uncharismatic to the extreme. I reckon young Ned was probably a softer version of Jon Snow.

edit: how the hell did Ned and Robert become so close? opposites attract?

Robert helped Ned smile and stay light. The guy a was always pretty icy and grim. When he was around Robert he could open up and show the humourous side of his personality.

Ned gave Robert a true friendship and family. He went with Robert to visit Mya despite not always wanting to. Robert saw who Ned really was and loved him for it.

On top of that they both knew they could count on each other. Robert trusts Ned more than anyone, which is why he made him hand. More than that I think he missed his friend. It had been nine years.

Ned could trust the Robert he KNEW. Robert lost a lot of his better qualities after Lyanna was abducted. He made daily visits to Mya, stayed fit, didn't over indulge and was chivalric to a fault. Ned said himself that if that man was king he would stand with Ned against the Lannisters. But he lost a lot after the war and got some things he did not want, namely Cersei.

[Bushido]

I don't know whether this was mentioned (if did,sorry) but Ned didn't name Wylla as Jon's mother arbituary. There was an instant where she was present along with some Robert's girl,so he couldn't remember and Ned "reminded" him. So,Ned continued on Robert's impressions. I am sure everyone mentioned was indeed involved only not in the way Edric/Robert say.

[Yukle]

Robert helped Ned smile and stay light. The guy a was always pretty icy and grim. When he was around Robert he could open up and show the humourous side of his personality.

Ned gave Robert a true friendship and family. He went with Robert to visit Mya despite not always wanting to. Robert saw who Ned really was and loved him for it.

On top of that they both knew they could count on each other. Robert trusts Ned more than anyone, which is why he made him hand. More than that I think he missed his friend. It had been nine years.

This is well put. :)

It's also implied that Ned was much cheerier before the deaths of his sister, brother and father. He never really came back whole from the war, as Catelyn sometimes laments. She also feels that he sometimes seems to hide part of himself away, so it's possible that as a child Ned was much more adventurous.

Since Ned didn't expect to have the responsibility of running his household, he may have overcompensated on the sudden expectations upon him and ended up bing extra honourable all the time, extra militant when needed and extra patient when doing a Lord's duty.

To make matters worse, his first act in his new household after the war was to bring back Jon. This, along with all the deaths and the fact that his marriage was initially loveless would've really changed him.

[eggs]

What I mean to say is that apart from some gossiping we have no actual proof of anything romantic between Eddard and Ashara or Brandon and Ashara as a matter of fact.

Well you do have to wonder why GRRM would bother adding into every book if there was meant to be nothing going on

.

Robert helped Ned smile and stay light. The guy a was always pretty icy and grim. When he was around Robert he could open up and show the humourous side of his personality.

Ned gave Robert a true friendship and family. He went with Robert to visit Mya despite not always wanting to. Robert saw who Ned really was and loved him for it.

On top of that they both knew they could count on each other. Robert trusts Ned more than anyone, which is why he made him hand. More than that I think he missed his friend. It had been nine years.

Ned could trust the Robert he KNEW. Robert lost a lot of his better qualities after Lyanna was abducted. He made daily visits to Mya, stayed fit, didn't over indulge and was chivalric to a fault. Ned said himself that if that man was king he would stand with Ned against the Lannisters. But he lost a lot after the war and got some things he did not want, namely Cersei.

Ned always seemed like a less hardass version of Stannis, so I thought it was weird that Robert would hate his brother but love Ned. Its too bad GRRM probably isnt going to write about them when they were young. they were probably a lot more compatible back in the day.

This is well put. :)

I was kicking the game's ass till i saw your sig.

[Rolex Baratheon]

Quentyn was not incompetent. Arianne describes him as dutiful, polite etc while not being physically attractive.

[Batman]

Well you do have to wonder why GRRM would bother adding into every book if there was meant to be nothing going on

.Ned always seemed like a less hardass version of Stannis, so I thought it was weird that Robert would hate his brother but love Ned. Its too bad GRRM probably isnt going to write about them when they were young. they were probably a lot more compatible back in the day.

I was kicking the game's ass till i saw your sig.

I don't think Robert hated Stannis, it's just that he does not have a light humourous side. That made it hard to grow close to him. It's not easy to always be around someone so grisly. He probably loved him for his loyalty but didn't like how negative he is about everything. Plus Robert spent most of his time in the Eyrie so it is hard to grow close without being around each other.

[eggs]

Quentyn was not incompetent. Arianne describes him as dutiful, polite etc while not being physically attractive.

well being polite and dutiful doesnt make him not incompetent. He was in waaaaay over his head and couldnt have even made it to Dany on his own. He was even given the name frog by the sellswords. kid had no charisma or authority.

I don't think Robert hated Stannis, it's just that he does not have a light humourous side. That made it hard to grow close to him. It's not easy to always be around someone so grisly. He probably loved him for his loyalty but didn't like how negative he is about everything. Plus Robert spent most of his time in the Eyrie so it is hard to grow close without being around each other.

he named Renly the lord of Storms End after Stannis held it through a year of siege! Cersei even says that he meant it as an insult.

[Batman]

well being polite and dutiful doesnt make him not incompetent. He was in waaaaay over his head and couldnt have even made it to Dany on his own. He was even given the name frog by the sellswords. kid had no charisma or authority.

he named Renly the lord of Storms End after Stannis held it through a year of siege! Cersei even says that he meant it as an insult.

Robert needed a strong man to govern dragonstone and it's surrounding area. They had been ruled by the Targaryen family for nearly 400 years. Renlys could not hold it, but who would be game to mess with Stannis.

I think it's just a case of inconsiderate behaviour rather than outward malice. You put me in a tough spot because storms end should be Stannis' but I tried to defend Robert. Oh fuck it, Robert was a jerk to Stannis and Renlys deserves summerhall.

[Barbrey]

Hello - my first post

One thing that bothers me about the story of Ned and Edric both being wet-nursed by Wylla is the biology and timing of it. We know Ned is 12, and Jon is - say - 15 at the same time. So they are about three years apart. Jon was taken away from Wylla soon after his birth, so how come she still had milk three years later for Ned? Did she have a child of her own at the same time Jon was born? And did this child live and keep nursing until Edric was born? Or did her own child who was contemporary with Jon die? If so, she had to have another one at the time Ned was born to have the milk available for him. Wylla's own reproductive history has to be taken into account, I think.

And as an aside, it raises the possibility of one or two "low-born" babies available for all kinds of swapping shenanighans if GRRD is so inclined.

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

The best lies have a bit of truth in them. Maybe Ned did dishonor Ashara and get her pregnant. The baby died, she lost Ned to Cat and Ned slew her brother. It was too much for her so he lept from the tower or ran away (keeping the Lemore possiblity open).

Ned has all this shame now and a baby that belongs to his sister. How better to sell his lie about Jon than to use his shame as a cover?

Edit: To answer the OP. I suppose what Edric heard was a mixture of truth lie and cover up.

[A Crow Come Over]

Sure, we know Ned at least had a crush, Edric implies Ashara and Ned were in love. Not Brandon or any other character. If you believe Ned/Ashara that's an answer but for people who believe differently, what's the explanation.

Don't see how this has any implication on the end game, it seems clear that GRRM is throwing out as many red herrings as possible for who Jon's mom.

Edric was told one version of the events, I think thats the end of the discussion, the reason why he was told this story I don't think matters.

[Apple the Great]

well being polite and dutiful doesnt make him not incompetent. He was in waaaaay over his head and couldnt have even made it to Dany on his own. He was even given the name frog by the sellswords. kid had no charisma or authority.

I think you're doing a bit of a disservice to Quentyn. He may not inspire the same loyalty that Robert Baratheon did with his easy humour, amiability and martial prowess, but his comrades were very loyal to him, and what kind of authority could he have? He may be a Prince of Dorne, but travelling undercover with only a handful of companions in a far away land, where is the source of his authority? If people don't listen to him, what repercussions would they face? Authority has to have power behind it, whatever form of power depends.