[TWoW Spoilers] Barristan

[SeanF]

A hundred ships is not enough to transport Danys army by sea. That was established in ADWD. Even if they capture all the slaver ships and use the gift of the thirteen along with Vics 70 ships thats not even up to a hundred. Dany is still is not in a position to leave.

I expect she'll end up with some of the Volantene Navy.

I suppose much depends on how many soldiers she intends to bring to Westeros, and whether she wants to head directly for Westeros, or conquer Volantis and/or Pentos along the way.

If she can win over some of the Dothraki, that would allow some of her men to march overland, though the Dothraki Sea, towards the Free Cities.

I enjoyed reading about this, but do wonder if Martin is starting to give away too much.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

So Shavepate has control of the city once Barristan and troops are outside the wall. How interesting it would be if he closes the city gates and does not let them back in once the besiegers are destroyed.

I'm thinking of something along those lines. Maybe a bit too obvious though. Barristan mistrusts him, so you'd assume he'd have something inside the city as a reserve. The Green Grace on the other hand......

A little man with a big ego, sounds a bit like LF. This is how he dies according to Azador's report:

He trips over his bird armor, and dies for it. LF is planning on (supposedly) marrying Sansa, the little bird, off to some powerful man (Harry the Heir at the moment, but that could change) so that he can secure his own position. I suppose you could say she is kind of like his armor.

The Great One's ego is only big because he justifies it. He's no trumped-up Yunkishman.

If anything is to be made regarding a bird connection and The Great One, it probably refers to his sigil (Mockingbird). I don't really think these theories have much credence though.

He gets killed by a lamb. and LF says this in ACOK:

I'm thinking maybe the Hound....but the Hound was interested in gold at one point, so it's not a perfect connection. If someone can think of a better fit, please do.

The Hound has technique though.

AMEN,

Once the Dragon Horn is blown, I think total chaos will break out . . . with Ser Selmy dying in the battle, maybe even Victarion. Selmy won't survive this day, I feel it . . we all have read enough GRRM to know as when it seemed Stannis had won Blackwater, out of no where he got smashed by the Tyrell and Lannister Hosts and a Tyrell dressed as Renly.

Also, one thing GRRM has taught us, "NEVER TRUST A SELLSWORD."

Bronn bailed on Tyrion

Brown Ben Plumm had his gold taken by his Sgt then betrayed Dany,

Daario killed his captain and took control of the company,

The Second Sons, StormCrows betrayed The Yunkai.

Chaos is about to break out . .

I'm in agreement with pretty much all of this.

I'm far more inclined to see Jorah as Barristan's killer though. Man holds a grudge.

maybe a certain little No One who says hit list "prayers"? :cool4:

She knows his name, and doesn't really have much of a reason to kill The Great One.

Reading about those chapters I can't help but think how great ADWD would have been if the final two battles had been included in it as initially planned. All the book had been building up to this climax.

Chin up. Just means that TWOW will be all the more exciting.

Just to confirm, these were excerpts and not full chapters yes?

I see Barristan's army eventually pulling through, but there is no way the battle will be as easy as it seems to be going in the chapter mentioned.

Edited February 19, 2013 by The Third Reed

[SeanF]

It would have been nice for ADWD to end with the battle in Mereen - but I think it ended up in just about the right place in the North. It probably is best not to reveal how much of the Pink Letter is true or false until TWOW.

[David C. Hunter]

He asks Tumco, whose young eyes can see more clearly, to identify the banners. Tumco says “Squids, big squids. Like in the Basilisk Isles, where sometimes they drag whole ships down.” Barristan replies, “Where I’m from, we call them krakens.”

Hail Victarion! Woo! Best line in the two chapters. I got goosebumps...only another two years

[The Frost Wolf]

I took a lot of notes. Huge spoilers here!

[GRRM announced that he would read two new chapters, even though he wonders why he is giving more and more of the next book away.]

SER BARRISTAN I

The chapter begins with a gory description of the bodies of plague victims being thrown into the city by the trebuchets. Only the northern districts across the river are far enough away to avoid being hit.

Barristan rides into the large market by the western gate wearing his new Queensguard armor and riding the silver horse that Drogo gave to Dany. He feels that this is presumptuous, but thinks that even while the queen is missing it is important to have some symbol of her around to improve morale. Three of his lads ride with him: Tumco Lho, Larraq, and the Red Lamb.

In the marketplace (featuring landmarks like the statue of the chainmaker and the spire of skulls), at the “hour of the wolf,” the main forces that will participate in the attack gather. There are five thousand unsullied, the Storm Crows, a ragged band of about twenty dothraki and the pitfighters. The Shavepate’s beasts are manning the city walls in place of the unsullied. They will serve as the city’s last line of protection if Barristan’s attack fails and Dany has not returned.

The attack will leave from three gates (north, south, and west), but Barristan will lead the charge against the main Yunkai’i forces directly to the west. Barristan thinks that the attack is against all of his instincts, as the basic numbers are against them and success hinges on trusting sellswords -- in particular, trusting the in the Tattered Prince’s greed.

He meets with his commanders (including the Widower, Jokin, Grey Worm, and some of the pitfighters). Their plan is to lead with the horse and flank the defending legions, taking out the trebuchets and burning the pavilions. The pitfighters will advance after the horse and focus on intimidation and slaughter. Finally, the unsullied will line up outside the gate, which should be successful if the Yunkai’i don’t mount an immediate counterattack.

Barristan reminds the commanders that they must retreat or advance when they hear the Red Lamb blow the horn. The Windower asks what to do if there is no horn blast -- that is, if Barristan and his lads are all dead. Barristan knows that this is likely, as he intends to be first through the lines of the Yunkai’i, so he just says that in that case, the Widower will be second in command. Barristan then remembers that Lord Commander Hightower had once told him to never speak of defeat before a battle, since the gods might be listening.

It will be dawn soon. Someone says “A red dawn,” and Barristan thinks “A dragon dawn.” Previously, he had prayed to each of the seven for various things, ending with a plea to the stranger for mercy. Though he knows all men must die eventually, Barristan would like to live through the day.

More bodies fall from the sky. Barristan notices Tumco Lho’s reaction and sees that the lad fears the pale more more than the foes outside the gates. Barristan then gives a stirring pep talk about how every man fears every battle. At first, the Red Lamb is defiant, saying that doesn’t fear death because at that point he’ll get to meet the Great Shepherd -- when he plans to break his shepherd’s crook in two and castigate the shepherd for creating such a peaceful people in such a violent world.

Barristan continues his lecture, saying that there is “nothing more terrible, nothing more glorious, nothing more absurd” than war. Even Barristan admits that he shat his pants in his first battle. He is interrupted by a murmur among the soldiers -- a fire is lit at the harpy on top of one of the pyramids, presumably to signal the men at each gate to begin the attack. The gate opens and Barristan sounds the call to attack.

[At this point he says there will be a Victarion and Tyrion chapter (perhaps the ones he has already read), in some order, at which point we return to...]

SER BARRISTAN II

His gut feels twisted from nervousness as he rides through the gates. He knows that the feeling will go away when time slows down in the chaos of battle. Dany’s horse is easily outpacing the lads and the rest of the cavalry; Barristan is pleased because he intends to outrun the Widower and strike the first blow. The Yunkai’i are totally unprepared and Barristan closes in on the Harridan, the largest of the trebuchets. The stormcrows take up the cry, “Daario!” and “Stormcrows, fly!” Barristan thinks that he will never again doubt the valor of sellswords.

There are only thirty yards between the horse and the Yunkai’i legions by the time any defense is mounted. The air fills with arrows. A squire for the stormcrows is killed, and a bolt pierces Barristan’s shield. There are three horn blasts and the pitfighters emerge from the gate behind them.

Barristan glances back to see the pitfighters. There are about two hundred of them, but they make enough noise for two thousand. One woman stands out, wearing nothing but greaves, sandals, a chainmail skirt, and a python. Barristan is a bit shocked and, watching her breasts bouncing around, thinks that this day is sure to be her last. The pitfighters are mostly shouting “Loraq!” and “Hizdar!” but some do call out “Danaerys!” Larraq is hit in the chest with an arrow, bringing Barristan’s attention forward, but the squire keeps the banners held high and shakes it off.

Barristan has reached the Harridan, but a Ghiscari legion six thousand strong has lined up to protect the huge trebuchet. They are six ranks deep -- the first rank kneels and holds their spears pointing out and up, the second rank stands and holds their spears out at waist height, and and the third rank holds the spears out on their shoulders. The rest have small throwing spears and are ready to step forward when their comrades fall.

Barristan knows that a maester’s chain is only as strong as his weakest link, and identifies the companies of the Yunkish lords as the weakest of his immediate foes, certainly weaker than the slave legions. In particular, Barristan targets the Little Pigeon and his herons. The slaves chosen to be herons were freakishly tall before they were put on stilts, and wear pink scales and feathers and steel beaks. But Barristan sees that they will be blind because of the dawn rising over the city, and like to break ranks easily, so Barristan turns away from the legion guarding the trebuchet at the last minute and heads for the herons.

He cuts the head off of one of the herons and his lads join the fray. Dany’s horse knocks a heron into three others and they all fall over. In a moment, the herons are scattering and running away, led by the Little Pigeon himself. Unfortunately for the Little Pigeon, he trips over the fringes of his bird armor and gets caught by the Red Lamb. The Little Pigeon begs for mercy, saying that he will fetch a large ransom. The Red Lamb just says “I came for blood, not gold” and knocks in the Little Pigeon’s head with his mace, splattering blood all over Barristan and Dany’s silver horse.

The unsullied begin marching through the gates, and Barristan sees that the Yunkai’i have missed their chance to effectively launch a counterattack. As he watches more of the slave legions get slaughtered, mostly those who were chained together and could not retreat, he wonders where the sellsword companies like the treacherous Second Sons have gone. The unsullied finish lining up outside the gates, implacable even when one of their own number falls with a crossbow bolt to the neck.

Tumco draws Barristan’s attention to the bay, asking “Why are there so many ships?” Barristan remembers that yesterday there were twenty, but now there are thrice that many. His heart sinks when he reasons that the ships from Volantis must have arrived, but then sees that some of the ships are crashing together.

He asks Tumco, whose young eyes can see more clearly, to identify the banners. Tumco says “Squids, big squids. Like in the Basilisk Isles, where sometimes they drag whole ships down.” Barristan replies, “Where I’m from, we call them krakens.”

Realizing that the Greyjoys have arrived, his first thought is “Has Balon joined with Joffrey, or the Starks?” But he realizes that he’s heard that Balon is dead, and wonders if this has something to do with the Balon’s son, the boy who was a ward of the Starks. He sees that ironmen are coming ashore, fighting the Yunkish, and says, surprised, “They are on our side!” The sellswords did not come to meet his charge because they were already preoccupied with the ironborn!

Barristan is almost gleeful. “It’s like Baelor Breakspear and Prince Maekar, the hammer and the anvil. We have them! We have them!”

[GRRM pointed out that these were, of course, Victarion's men and made a comment about Tyrion currently being quite miserable.]

There were a couple of interesting things in the Q&A session, too.

When asked if he felt guilty killing his characters, he said yes, but that stories with perfectly safe heroes are dishonest because death is a part of life.

I asked whether he would comment on his choice to call these chapters “Ser Barristan” instead of continuing with the titles from ADWD, and he replied that he has “a method to his madness” for promoting characters with descriptors to named characters but that he didn’t want to say more.

He mentioned the Wild Cards movie that Syfy and Universal are working on, being written by Melinda Snodgrass, and that he thinks they asked for the license in order to have a superhero franchise to compete with Marvel or DC.

When asked for his suggestions for Hugo nominations, he highlighted the potential for fans to nominate prominent bloggers for the fan writing award even though blogs are excluded from being nominated as “zines.” In particular, he called out John J Miller from Cheese Magnet and Alan Whitehead of the Wertzone.

Anyway, I loved hearing these chapters and I had a lot of fun at my first con! Hopefully next time I'll be free to track down some folks from the BWB.

Damn. Thank you so much! So much more descriptive than other summaries I've seen :)

[bogdevil]

She knows his name, and doesn't really have much of a reason to kill The Great One.

I was thinking she would kill him as Arya Stark, not as a FM hit. And she has a lot of reasons to kill LF. He is holding her sister hostage/molesting her, is responsible for her father's death, her aunt's death, and was in on the plot behind her mother and brother's deaths.

[Stark@heart]

Finally Merreen becomes interesting!!

And it looks like I'll find out pretty quickly if one of my fav crackpots is true - If a certain dragon already in the city already has a rider.

Could we see the return of the Quentyn the Dragontamer?

[oprahnoodlemantra]

This battle sounds like it's going to be a giant clusterfuck.

[Arataniello]

Could we see the return of the Quentyn the Dragontamer?

How do you envision this coming about? Quentyn being revived by Moqorro?

[Stark@heart]

Nah, I think Q survived the dragon stealing attempt.

I think the Prince that died was the Tattered Prince. The Dornishmen just abandoned the guy after he was burned and were happy to skip out when Barristan made his offer. If it were Quentyn, I think they would have demanded to be by their princes side until he died and then they would have insisted on taking his bones home.

I picture Q being taken by Rhaegal to one of the pyrimids and being stuck there trying to get to know the dragon, similar to Dany & Drogon. I think we'll see the Dornishmen make a beeline for Q & the dragon and we'll see the dragon horns affects thru Quentyn's Pov too.

[aryagonnakill]

Nah, I think Q survived the dragon stealing attempt.

I think the Prince that died was the Tattered Prince. The Dornishmen just abandoned the guy after he was burned and were happy to skip out when Barristan made his offer. If it were Quentyn, I think they would have demanded to be by their princes side until he died and then they would have insisted on taking his bones home.

I picture Q being taken by Rhaegal to one of the pyrimids and being stuck there trying to get to know the dragon, similar to Dany & Drogon. I think we'll see the Dornishmen make a beeline for Q & the dragon and we'll see the dragon horns affects thru Quentyn's Pov too.

... So your saying if it was Quentyn they'd have done exactly what they did? And Quentyn glamoured himself to talk to Barristan as the Tattered Prince?

[Arataniello]

Nah, I think Q survived the dragon stealing attempt.

I think the Prince that died was the Tattered Prince. The Dornishmen just abandoned the guy after he was burned and were happy to skip out when Barristan made his offer. If it were Quentyn, I think they would have demanded to be by their princes side until he died and then they would have insisted on taking his bones home.

I picture Q being taken by Rhaegal to one of the pyrimids and being stuck there trying to get to know the dragon, similar to Dany & Drogon. I think we'll see the Dornishmen make a beeline for Q & the dragon and we'll see the dragon horns affects thru Quentyn's Pov too.

I see. Meanwhile, in the books the remainder of us read, Quentyn is dead.

[gougef]

Nah, I think Q survived the dragon stealing attempt.

I think the Prince that died was the Tattered Prince. The Dornishmen just abandoned the guy after he was burned and were happy to skip out when Barristan made his offer. If it were Quentyn, I think they would have demanded to be by their princes side until he died and then they would have insisted on taking his bones home.

I picture Q being taken by Rhaegal to one of the pyrimids and being stuck there trying to get to know the dragon, similar to Dany & Drogon. I think we'll see the Dornishmen make a beeline for Q & the dragon and we'll see the dragon horns affects thru Quentyn's Pov too.

This ranks right up there with Ned being alive.

Please, step back away from the forum. ;)

[Ponys123]

How many man does Victarion have with him ?

Assuming the average crew of 100 per ship, with 50/60-ish ships, that'd be around 5000-6000 men.

Note that the Iron Fleet's all warships from what I recall, not longships.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Ponys123

[Tyryan Lannister]

I thought the horn killed the person who blew on it so if Vic tries will it kill him and burn his insides up? Does the horn need someone with dragon blood like Dany or Ben Brown Plumm to blow it?

From what I'm aware of, we know that the horn will kill the person who blows it if they blow three blasts, but it is unknown if one blast alone is enough to kill a man--Vic is just being cautious in having chosen three thralls to blow it in his place

Reading about those chapters I can't help but think how great ADWD would have been if the final two battles had been included in it as initially planned. All the book had been building up to this climax.

Agreed. And I think that this is why Martin has been releasing so many chapters from Winds--notice how they are all centered around the events that should have happened in Dance/that were easy to assume would happen?

I'm really hoping that somehow, after bloody battle, there is a "moot" of some kind between Barristan, Tyrion, and Victarion that is orchestrated by Moqorro. As he's already proven his ability and wisdom to both Vic and Tyrion, this might be possible.

We also need to remember that Marwyn should show his mastiff mug at some point as well

I'm thinking of something along those lines. Maybe a bit too obvious though. Barristan mistrusts him, so you'd assume he'd have something inside the city as a reserve. The Green Grace on the other hand......

:agree:

The Great One's ego is only big because he justifies it. He's no trumped-up Yunkishman.

If anything is to be made regarding a bird connection and The Great One, it probably refers to his sigil (Mockingbird). I don't really think these theories have much credence though.

hehehehe The Great One hehehe

I was thinking she would kill him as Arya Stark, not as a FM hit. And she has a lot of reasons to kill LF. He is holding her sister hostage/molesting her, is responsible for her father's death, her aunt's death, and was in on the plot behind her mother and brother's deaths.

Well, I for one feel that that one was justified, seeing as it was ultimately Lysa who started this whole mess (poisoning Arryn so that she and The Great One could be together)

Could we see the return of the Quentyn the Dragontamer?

How do you envision this coming about? Quentyn being revived by Moqorro?

I think the Prince that died was the Tattered Prince.

And Quentyn glamoured himself to talk to Barristan as the Tattered Prince?

Exactly--if Quent survived and it was the TP that died, then how did Barry meet with the TP after Quent's death?

EDIT: spelling

Edited February 19, 2013 by Tyryan Lannister

[Lord Godric]

Reading about those chapters I can't help but think how great ADWD would have been if the final two battles had been included in it as initially planned. All the book had been building up to this climax.

It would have been nice for ADWD to end with the battle in Mereen - but I think it ended up in just about the right place in the North. It probably is best not to reveal how much of the Pink Letter is true or false until TWOW.

I don't think we even needed to see the entire battle, just get to as far as this Barristan chapter ends. Even that much would have made the entire Meereen portion of that book so much better.

[Razha]

Quenteen is definitely dead and its is this death that made his story line beautiful. Quenteen surviving the dragon atatck and being misteriously/magically nurtured back to life by kindly dragon while everyone (or almost everyone) mistakes Tattered Prince fro Prince of Dorne - this is not GRRM, this is exactly the kind of fantasy GRRM is trying to change and challenge.

As to Littlefinger I'm still convinced that Sansa is going to be "the maiden defeating the titan" from the prophecy. As to Arya, I think she might spend most of TWOW in essos, first training, then assasinating someone important in Essos, and maybe only by the end of the book being sent, or deciding to go back to Westeros. So even if she returns to Westeros in the next book , I don't think Vale will be on her agenda, most likely she will go North or to KL .

Sansa meanwhile will be married to Harry, sweetrobin will die before or even after this marriage, Sansa will bear a child to Harry, this makes Harry already disposable, so LF offs him and marries (or plans to marry) Sansa himself - thus becoming a stepfather and regent for the hair to Vale. At least this might be his plan but of course something somewhere will go wrong....

[Stark@heart]

I love that people can think "Quentyn lives" is the biggest crackpot thing in these forums? Really?

So, if not the Tattered Prince, who is only identifiable by his "tattered cloak" then one of the Princes' men.

It could happen, GRRMs recent hint that chapter/character names have a deeper meaning...

Q was named The DragonTamer if he's dead then so be it but I no longer trust GRRM,lol. After Ned and the Red Wedding and Arya getting whacked in the back of the head by an axe, well...

I need more than a body & one scene to tidy everything up for me. Not until I hear it from Drink, when they're no longer in Barristan's control, will I let this one go.

[kephv]

I love that people can think "Quentyn lives" is the biggest crackpot thing in these forums? Really?

So, if not the Tattered Prince, who is only identifiable by his "tattered cloak" then one of the Princes' men.

It could happen, GRRMs recent hint that chapter/character names have a deeper meaning...

Q was named The DragonTamer if he's dead then so be it but I no longer trust GRRM,lol. After Ned and the Red Wedding and Arya getting whacked in the back of the head by an axe, well...

I need more than a body & one scene to tidy everything up for me. Not until I hear it from Drink, when they're no longer in Barristan's control, will I let this one go.

Ned was clearly shown as dead in the first book, as Robb was in the third. Arya didn't die and was proved to be alive after ten chapters or so.

Quentyn, however, was shown getting a full face of dragon fire. Not something he's likely to recover from, as seen in the subsequent chapters. That's why it's crackpot.

Edited February 19, 2013 by ManyFacedOne

[JMJ]

Agreed. And I think that this is why Martin has been releasing so many chapters from Winds--notice how they are all centered around the events that should have happened in Dance/that were easy to assume would happen?

Makes you think that basically GRRM had already mostly written out the Meereen battle prior to publishing ADWD. That's probably why he's reading these chapters this "early". I'm actually concerned this means nothing in terms of how quickly he will be able to finish all of TWOW and get it published...