Jump to content

Recommended Posts

As far a Barristan coming to his demise during the battle for Meereen, I'm having a hard time believing that. So far, he's one of the few remaining people in the book and the only POV of someone present that can give testimony to the critical events since Aegon at Summerhall, how Aery's came to the throne, what really happened at Harrenhall and the possible likelihood regarding several plot lines that were developed in ADwD (Griff, YG and possibly Lemore). Further, he is part of the Illyrio connection as are Dany and Tyrion which I think may start to draw Tyrion's suspicion as to who Illyrio is if that is brought to light. If during the battle, Vic starts plowing through everyone, whether they are on the Yunkish side or on Dany's, perhaps Ben Plumm may have already turned to Dany's camp and he and Tyrion help rescue Barristan from Vic's onslaught.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought the black tentacles were a reference to Crow's Eye and that Euron was controlling Vic like a marionette.

The smiling sadly part from the HoD prophecy doesn't really seem to fit Vic. He's not much for sad smiles, I think. He's more a man of action.

"grey lips smiling sadly" = Greyjoy - almost literally. It would go for any Greyjoy, including Victarion, and since he is actually coming to Dany and suspected to have died in his cabin (and revived R'Hlorr style)...

Regarding Victarion and the defenders of Meereen, while it would be in-character for the ironmen in general and Vic in particular to just cut through everyone, he may yet turn out to make a distinction between those he thinks follow "his" dragon queen and those who don't. He seemed to have the idea that Dany would marry him willingly (not that he would accept a no, but I got the impression he doesn't expect one), and then her followers would also be his.

Edited by Wouter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My prediction is that they may use what's left of the Iron Fleet to get back to Westeros, but there just seems to be no way Dany can get her entire host as it currently stands to Westeros by boat. Besides, so she's going to show up there with a host of completely foreign looking invaders? How is that going to help her win over allies and small folk? Then even assuming she "wins" the IT, what does she then do with her host? Keep the unsullied around KL? Send everyone else back home after they get a chance to rape and plunder?

My guess is that GRRM has thought through these issues already. I think something will happen either leading much of her host to die in battle, or for Dany to decide to return to Westeros with a much smaller contingent. Or perhaps the big "red herring" is that she'll never make it back to Westeros after all...

I've thought that, too in a sense. A lot of people are so sure GRRM will srite a happy ending with Tyrion Jon and Dany defeeating the others while riding their dragon buddies. Like it's Eragon or something. No way. GRRM is a writer of twists and unhappy endings- if you are familiar with his old work. What if Dany makes it to Westeros but only for a day? Or what if she is crowned only to have to die in order to save Westeros from the Others (some big dramatic sacrifice). No law says this book has to end happy, nor does it have to end wrapped up. What if the OThers are not supposed to be dealt with? They could simply be a backdrop for the greater story of nobles fighting. And I definitely doubt all the dragons will survive. If anything, I wouldn't doubt if all 3 die and a single egg is left over.

Or that Arya and Jon die. All sorts of unhappy endings. But I would bet there will be no dragon buddies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've thought that, too in a sense. A lot of people are so sure GRRM will srite a happy ending with Tyrion Jon and Dany defeeating the others while riding their dragon buddies. Like it's Eragon or something.

That just made me conjure up an image of Tyrion, Jon and Dany riding off into the sunset on their dragons, ala "The Three Amigos". Nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've thought that, too in a sense. A lot of people are so sure GRRM will srite a happy ending with Tyrion Jon and Dany defeeating the others while riding their dragon buddies. Like it's Eragon or something. No way. GRRM is a writer of twists and unhappy endings- if you are familiar with his old work. What if Dany makes it to Westeros but only for a day? Or what if she is crowned only to have to die in order to save Westeros from the Others (some big dramatic sacrifice). No law says this book has to end happy, nor does it have to end wrapped up. What if the OThers are not supposed to be dealt with? They could simply be a backdrop for the greater story of nobles fighting. And I definitely doubt all the dragons will survive. If anything, I wouldn't doubt if all 3 die and a single egg is left over.

Or that Arya and Jon die. All sorts of unhappy endings. But I would bet there will be no dragon buddies.

GRRM has stated on several occasions that the ending will be "bittersweet." Take that for what you will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GRRM has stated on several occasions that the ending will be "bittersweet." Take that for what you will.

I think Dany will die. as much as i hate that, I feel like she has to in the end :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks to Azador for posting your excellent notes of the Barristan excerpts! :bowdown:

Though I'm just a little bit disappointed GRRM so far hasn't read any chapters yet with info about any of the Starks (unless I missed something) - I guess he's keeping that for the actual release of TWOW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Dany will die. as much as i hate that, I feel like she has to in the end :(

I believe that too. My guess is that she will in childbirth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks to Azador for posting your excellent notes of the Barristan excerpts! :bowdown:

Though I'm just a little bit disappointed GRRM so far hasn't read any chapters yet with info about any of the Starks (unless I missed something) - I guess he's keeping that for the actual release of TWOW.

Thanks Azador for your summaries, listening to George tell the tale must have been epic.

I wouldn't get your hopes up regarding Stark chapters. Martin seems to have been very careful so far to not release chapters which answer the 'cliffhanger questions' left at the end of "A Dance with Dragons".

Theon I is clearly set before the Pink Letter.

Arianne I and Arianne II - don't reveal anything particularly new regarding Aegon's invasion. We already knew from ADWD that he had conquered a number of castles in the Stormlands.

Barristan I, Barristan II, Tyrion I and Victarion I - we knew that these characters were going to converge in the Battle of Fire and the chapters certainly do not reveal too much about what will happen there. Ie. they all occur prior to the game changing (we assume) moment where the dragonhorn gets blown.

- All of the chapters that have been released so far sound epic and make me really excited for the book proper but none of them cover the cliffhangers of ADWD - which is a good thing.

I wouldn't expect to hear from Daenerys, Davos, Jon, Melisandre, Jon Connington, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, Arya or Bran before the book comes out. I'm still holding out hope that Sansa is the chapter in the back of the US paperback!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does no one else think that a real Kraken may come into play at some point? like one as big as the one in Pirates 2.

There have been mentions of them a few times, even in the new Arianne Chapter. i feel like a real Kraken is going to take down some or one of the iron born ships, maybe the horn will attract it as well as whatever it will do to the dragons. i mean the starks have their wolves, the targaryens have their dragons, why shouldnt the ironborn be set upon by a giant f%$king Squid?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does no one else think that a real Kraken may come into play at some point? like one as big as the one in Pirates 2.

There have been mentions of them a few times, even in the new Arianne Chapter. i feel like a real Kraken is going to take down some or one of the iron born ships, maybe the horn will attract it as well as whatever it will do to the dragons. i mean the starks have their wolves, the targaryens have their dragons, why shouldnt the ironborn be set upon by a giant f%$king Squid?!

there will most definitly be krakens, we even get a confirmation of their existence in this very chapter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does no one else think that a real Kraken may come into play at some point? like one as big as the one in Pirates 2.

There have been mentions of them a few times, even in the new Arianne Chapter. i feel like a real Kraken is going to take down some or one of the iron born ships, maybe the horn will attract it as well as whatever it will do to the dragons. i mean the starks have their wolves, the targaryens have their dragons, why shouldnt the ironborn be set upon by a giant f%$king Squid?!

Thats actually a good point- In Feast someone is telling Cersei that krakens have been sighted off a certain coast, and not Greyjoys, but real beasts. So yeah, he could be planting the seeds so it's not completely out of left field like a deus ex machina. So far, I don't feel George has really had any of those.

-on my reread, I found that it was actually Varys telling Tywin about the Kraken, and it was seen off the Fingers.

Edited by Satoris T Born

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its established in ADWD that the Unsullied haven't been affected by the plague.

They lost only a dozen in the Battle of Yunkai whilst we never learn how many were lost in the attack on Mereen. Given that losing near half their numbers would warrent some mention in the text I can only assume those are not all the Unsullied and some are in the city. The description of all the forces for instance entirely omits the 3 Free Companies that Dany had trained from her freedmen. So not everyone has been accounted for anyway.

Agreed. And have to add that it's more than 3000 missing. Dany bought 8 legions of Unsullied (each with 1000 members apiece), 600 Unsullied from a ninth unfinished legion, plus all the Unsullied-in-training, likely amounting to another 1-2 thousand, so a safe bet would be that Dany started with 10000 under the command of Grey Worm, and through fighting, the Sons of the Harpy, and the very limited deaths due to plague, that number has likely only dwindled down to 8500-900 total under Grey Worm; So we're closer to "missing" 4000 at this point. But they are probably not "missing", just not on the battle field, for I highly doubt that either Barristan nor Grey Worm would have put all the Unsullied in the field, instead being very prudent battlefield commanders (which they both most definitely are) and choosing to leave almost half the force in reserve (and honestly, what better way to defeat the Yunkai et al than to have a giant offensive using a bunch of different armies along with 5000 Unsullied, retreat, and then come at that again with almost the same number of Unsullied except that these guys are all fresh and rested?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So far, I don't feel George has really had any of those.

The only real moment would be Coldhands rescuing Sam and Gilly from the wights.

I have this awful feeling that the Shavepate will betray Barristan and will have been working for the Harpy all along. When the horn sounds, the army retreats only for the gates of Meereen to be barred and the dragons loosed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am thinking that the unaccounted for troops may be attacking out of the other gates, since Barristan only mentioned forces that were right behind him in the fighting their must be others going out of other gates since they said 3 would be used.

Does no one else think that a real Kraken may come into play at some point? like one as big as the one in Pirates 2.

There have been mentions of them a few times, even in the new Arianne Chapter. i feel like a real Kraken is going to take down some or one of the iron born ships, maybe the horn will attract it as well as whatever it will do to the dragons. i mean the starks have their wolves, the targaryens have their dragons, why shouldnt the ironborn be set upon by a giant f%$king Squid?!

Imagine if what Euron really did was give Victarion the kraken horn we heard about and moqorro is just gonna let it happen and jump ship in the bay or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only kraken horn we've heard about was located on the Driftmark, Lord Celtigar's island just west of Dragonstone. Wonder where it is now...

Back to the chapter releases -- awesome stuff, Barristan is quite the badass even in his 60s!!! But his ill omens are making me a bit worried, especially about...

What's going on back inside the Meereen walls? Any thoughts on that?

This battle won't be the end of the Meereen knot, I'm assuming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if the "mount to bed" refers to someone she marries why Victarion and not Drogo or Hizdar?

Because up until now, she hasn't ridden a dragon. If Victarion is using the dragon horn and takes control of Drogon, she may be riding the dragon and end up riding to him. Then, in order to steal back the horn and thus control of the dragon, she'll have to pretend to want to be his wife. I'm not saying I truly believe that this is what this means, just a "suppose".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"grey lips smiling sadly" = Greyjoy - almost literally. It would go for any Greyjoy, including Victarion, and since he is actually coming to Dany and suspected to have died in his cabin (and revived R'Hlorr style)...

I decided to do some searching to see if there is anything else on this site about this. While it is not canon, the prophecies section of the Westeros website says this:

(full link: http://www.westeros....cies/Entry/1813)

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

A true mystery, the figure was commonly thought to perhaps represent Theon Greyjoy after escaping his fate at the hands of the Boltons, Gerion Lannister, and even Davos Seaworth. In the case of the Gerion, the bright eyes in a dead face may represent the fact that he is alive despite the common belief that he was lost at sea. Another fringe possibility is that the figure is someone like Coldhands, a sentient and autonomous wight, but this does not answer who it might be or why they would be aboard a ship.

A reader points out that A Dance with Dragons may provide the solution: this represents the blue-eyed ("eyes bright") Jon Connington, the dead face and grey lips representing his fate thanks to the greyscale he has become infected with. His being a corpse might also reflect the fact that he's presumed to be dead already in Westeros. We find this a convincing suggestion. It is also possible that this refers to Victarion Greyjoy, again using the visual pun of grey, smiling lips, and he certainly does seem to be heading towards a fateful meeting with Daenerys.

A Dance with Dragons, and the grouping that follows from the Undying, strongly suggests this figure is in fact one of her "husbands" in some fashion. In this case, the events of the novel suggest that Victarion Greyjoy, not his nephew Theon. His having a "dead face" may reference his strange healing at the hands of Moqorro.

I was happy to see that Jon Connington is a possibility mentioned here, but it seems like the authors think it is probably Vic.

Edited by mushroomshirt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to everyone saying Victarion is dumb....in his chapters in many places he seems to have been pretty smart in how he took his fleet or 99 ships across the Narrow Sea..on page 813 of ADWD it even says he is not coward, nor is he a fool when taking about how he is going to try to hurry and beat the Voltantenese ships he has seen making preparations to sail to Meeren....beat them to Dany and hurry and leave before they ALL get there.

It seems he is a pretty competent sailor and commander/strategist. His problem IMO is that he isn't dumb (just the opposite) , he is feels duty-bound to his brother and the Drowned God....by which is hands are tied in many ways as a result. ( Unless you want to argue that religion/religious people are dumb....but that is not something I am going to comment on, nor is this the place for it)

But in a world where some people follow rules (whatever they are) and other don't....

as to the comments about how he mistrusts laughter...because he thinks he might be the butt of some jape...I just think he has brother/family issues. I don't think he is dumb at all...he is just effed up in the head after a lifetime of eating shit as a dutiful younger brother.

Edited by HannibalStark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×