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Thank you Azador for excellent notes on the Barristan chapters.

As to the Dothraki and Dany, I think I read that Khal Pono is now near Meeren with 30,000 strong Khalasar. I do believe Dany will have to deal with the remaining Khals before she can return to Meeren. I am hoping having one huge dragon will make short work of it so that she can return quickly to Meeren with more Dothraki following her. One curious aspect about them is that they use dragonbone bows which are very strong and hit targets much further than Westeros bows.

I also think Dany must deal with the crones at Vaes Dothrak. She had a vision in HOU

Beneath the Mother of Mountains a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

I am just hoping Barristan holds Meeren until she returns. I love his character.

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Wait....I don't get it, why would Tyrion be miserable?

because his sellsword company probably has to fight the ironborn

are the dragons large enough to create a "field of fire"

It wouldn't surprise me if they were. They're certainly big enough to carry a person now as Dany demonstrated (even if she is small I got the impression that the dragon was pretty big underneath her)

Dumb compared to Euron? Sure. But people exaggerate his lack of intelligence. He's been leading men for a long time. If he was as stupid as some people think, he wouldn't still be in charge of the Iron Fleet. Balon would have replaced him a long time ago.

Depends on the type of intelligence. Like Littlefinger is brilliant but I don't think you're going to find more than his captain of the guard who would follow him into a battle lol Some people only know fighting. That may be Vic. Stupid to most things of the world but knows his ships and how to use them.

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Thank you Azador for excellent notes on the Barristan chapters.

As to the Dothraki and Dany, I think I read that Khal Pono is now near Meeren with 30,000 strong Khalasar. I do believe Dany will have to deal with the remaining Khals before she can return to Meeren. I am hoping having one huge dragon will make short work of it so that she can return quickly to Meeren with more Dothraki following her. One curious aspect about them is that they use dragonbone bows which are very strong and hit targets much further than Westeros bows.

I also think Dany must deal with the crones at Vaes Dothrak. She had a vision in HOU

Beneath the Mother of Mountains a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

I am just hoping Barristan holds Meeren until she returns. I love his character.

ah I forgot to mention that too. There is a chance that Dany is a lot closer to the city than she realized. So come the end of the battle we may see the dragon and Dothraki screamers come swooping in to join the fight.

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No one has mentioned on this thread you're scenario. I personally don't think the Dothraki will ever make it to Westeros. I don't see how a horde of several tens of thousands of Dothraki, their horses, and their women and children will fit on a bunch of boats and cross the narrow sea. There are theories out there that they may cross over the Lands of Always Winter via a land strait, but that also seems unlikely given how cold it is up there. Talk about under-dressed...

Unless of course the Narrow Sea freezes over.....

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Based on the notes; I think Barristan is being niave, and is ripe for slaughter. GRRM kills characters when they are noble to a fault. Which is a shame, because I like his character.

I also think Meereen's son's of the harpy are going to lock Dany's army out of the city. He should have left the Unsullied inside the gates.

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Barristan does seem somewhat likely to die, if only because the author has spoken of his intention to get rid of some of the POVs, which, up to now, has always meant death (i.e., Eddard, Catelyn, Arys, and Quentyn).

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Thank you so much Azador for the notes, I can't wait for the book release, specially now with this new chapters :)

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I enjoyed reading about this, but do wonder if Martin is starting to give away too much.

I disagree, this stuff should have been in Dance if not for his editor. If you ask me we should be discussing the aftermath of the Fire and Ice battles already. They are both written

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I finally cracked and read the synopsis of these chapters. Thankfully it gave away very little and went the way I knew it was going to go. I was afraid the whole battle would be spoilt but its barely started.

I disagree, this stuff should have been in Dance if not for his editor. If you ask me we should be discussing the aftermath of the Fire and Ice battles already. They are both written

At least one of them should have been in it. The ending was to abrupt in ADWD for both those plots.

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It’s a bit frustrating that the mode of publication of these books is still dictated by print. E-books are not limited with regard to size. FfC and DwD can easily be combined into a single ebook, and the end of DwD would not have needed to be trimmed in an ebook.

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Crap :frown5: I was really hoping he wouldn't release/read any more chapters from TWOW. He's giving to much away and spoiling the excitement for me of a completely new book where I don't know what will happen. I'm just going to stay away from these forums until I've read WOW.

If you don;t want to be spoiled... why in the world were you in this section of the forums?

He's only giving it away to those who choose to read it.

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Barristan does seem somewhat likely to die, if only because the author has spoken of his intention to get rid of some of the POVs, which, up to now, has always meant death (i.e., Eddard, Catelyn, Arys, and Quentyn).

I don't necessarily think it means death for Ser Barristan. He was the only second tier or higher character left alive inside Mereen. Someone had to tell the story inside the gates, the escape of the dragons, etc. I think he could easily be reunited with a first tier character and then no longer be needed as a narrator. If he's with Dany or Tyrion he doesn't need his own voice.

Who needs Damphair? Victarion may not been needed soon either or he may die. Or perhaps Arienne once she meets up with Connington.

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Where can I find these notes by Azador? There's over 20 pages in this thread....how far back do i need to look?

And I'm most interested in Selmy's chapters by far. So if it adds any detail to the opening post (which wasn't too detailed) I'll be very satisfied....

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Where can I find these notes by Azador? There's over 20 pages in this thread....how far back do i need to look?

And I'm most interested in Selmy's chapters by far. So if it adds any detail to the opening post (which wasn't too detailed) I'll be very satisfied....

It's in the first page: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/81338-twow-spoilers-barristan/#entry4122024

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First of all, I don't believe having very little dragon blood[bBP and Qyentyn], or even blowing the dragon horn, will have any control over Rhaegal and Viserion, and the fact that I don't believe Vic has the real horn, doesn't even come into question. I just simply don't believe that the horn can control a dragon. In fact, I believe that it will enrage them even more.

To be honest, I am starting to believe that only Dany will be able to control the dragons, because she is their "mother". So far, we have Quentyn, who also has some drops of Targ blood in him, and yet he was fried[i don't think he's still alive].

Now, in the past, whenever Tyrion is feeling pretty miserable, something happens almost instantly that changes his fate, from GoT(Bronn deciding to champion him when he was a goner in the Vale), Oberyn doing the same against the Mountain later, Jaime coming to free him when he was to be executed. Who's to say that Tyrion miserableness isn't a hint from GRRM that Tyrion's fate will change sooner rather than later.

I don't believe Dany needs a horn to control the dragons that she herself hatched from eggs, and Vic's point in going to Meereen is to aid Dany against the slavers, probably bring Moqorro to her, and bring ships as well. I believe that in fear of someone else controlling the dragons, he will blow the horn himself and die for it.

But I also believe that Ser Barristan and Tyrion are in the need of a chat. That's why I believe that Barristan will survive this battle. Dany, for instance, still has a lot to learn from him that she will not learn from anyone else, especially not from Tyrion, because I don't think Tyrion will ever have anyone else's but his own best interests at heart(he used to have Jaime's too, but no more).

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But I also believe that Ser Barristan and Tyrion are in the need of a chat. That's why I believe that Barristan will survive this battle. Dany, for instance, still has a lot to learn from him that she will not learn from anyone else, especially not from Tyrion, because I don't think Tyrion will ever have anyone else's but his own best interests at heart(he used to have Jaime's too, but no more).

Tyrion has been looking out for Penny, a girl who directed her anger at other people onto him, to the point of trying to kill him, since they were on the ship.

Edited by aryagonnakill

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First of all, I don't believe having very little dragon blood[bBP and Qyentyn], or even blowing the dragon horn, will have any control over Rhaegal and Viserion, and the fact that I don't believe Vic has the real horn, doesn't even come into question. I just simply don't believe that the horn can control a dragon. In fact, I believe that it will enrage them even more.

To be honest, I am starting to believe that only Dany will be able to control the dragons, because she is their "mother". So far, we have Quentyn, who also has some drops of Targ blood in him, and yet he was fried[i don't think he's still alive].

Now, in the past, whenever Tyrion is feeling pretty miserable, something happens almost instantly that changes his fate, from GoT(Bronn deciding to champion him when he was a goner in the Vale), Oberyn doing the same against the Mountain later, Jaime coming to free him when he was to be executed. Who's to say that Tyrion miserableness isn't a hint from GRRM that Tyrion's fate will change sooner rather than later.

I don't believe Dany needs a horn to control the dragons that she herself hatched from eggs, and Vic's point in going to Meereen is to aid Dany against the slavers, probably bring Moqorro to her, and bring ships as well. I believe that in fear of someone else controlling the dragons, he will blow the horn himself and die for it.

But I also believe that Ser Barristan and Tyrion are in the need of a chat. That's why I believe that Barristan will survive this battle. Dany, for instance, still has a lot to learn from him that she will not learn from anyone else, especially not from Tyrion, because I don't think Tyrion will ever have anyone else's but his own best interests at heart(he used to have Jaime's too, but no more).

But the books have stated and even Dany herself has said that only a dragon will only accept 1 rider....

Now will the other 2 dragons still love Dany as their mother? Sure they will. But I do think at some point that another character will claim a dragon for his or herself. Personally I'd love for Jon Snow to ride one of them but I do think his bond with Ghost lessens the chance of that happening.

2nd there's the matter of bloodline. Do you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon? Is that a certainty in the world that GRRM has created?And if so could he possibly change that? Who knows at this point....

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But the books have stated and even Dany herself has said that only a dragon will only accept 1 rider....

Now will the other 2 dragons still love Dany as their mother? Sure they will. But I do think at some point that another character will claim a dragon for his or herself. Personally I'd love for Jon Snow to ride one of them but I do think his bond with Ghost lessens the chance of that happening.

2nd there's the matter of bloodline. Do you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon? Is that a certainty in the world that GRRM has created?And if so could he possibly change that? Who knows at this point....

I don't think Jon's bond with Ghost will lessen the chance of him[Jon] having a dragon. Bran being able to skinchange into birds hasn't lessened his bond with Summer.

As for the Targs, and the dragons, and their riders, I believe that GRRM will surprise us in the next books with something we could never guess, no matter how much we tried.

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I think the dragons are being set up to be not saviours but *monsters* - that have to be killed. And the wave of heroes that set the world to rights will be not dragonriders but dragonslayers...

Whether this includes Dany as the human representative of the "dragon" dynasty, I don't know. But I wonder if Barristan will be the first Dragonslayer.

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But the books have stated and even Dany herself has said that only a dragon will only accept 1 rider....

Now will the other 2 dragons still love Dany as their mother? Sure they will. But I do think at some point that another character will claim a dragon for his or herself. Personally I'd love for Jon Snow to ride one of them but I do think his bond with Ghost lessens the chance of that happening.

2nd there's the matter of bloodline. Do you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon? Is that a certainty in the world that GRRM has created?And if so could he possibly change that? Who knows at this point....

I don't think you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon. After all, the Targaryens were not the only family in Valyria. Heck, given the evidence we have it appears the Targaryens were either not very well respected or even exiled from Valyria. If there is a bloodline requirement to ride a dragon, i think one would simply need to be of Valyrian descent. I doubt legitimacy would matter either, since that doesn't change the blood. Also a greenseer/warg might be able to overcome not having Valyrian blood and still bond with/ride a dragon.

I think the dragons are being set up to be not saviours but *monsters* - that have to be killed. And the wave of heroes that set the world to rights will be not dragonriders but dragonslayers...

Whether this includes Dany as the human representative of the "dragon" dynasty, I don't know. But I wonder if Barristan will be the first Dragonslayer.

I think Dany is being set up to be an antagonist to Westeros. The dragons are here weapons and will be pretty monstrous. They are an embodiment of magic and magic is a "hiltless sword". They bring chaos and ultimately can't be completely controlled, as seen already with Drogon eating the children from that village. Dany's only answer was to take him and fly off into the wilderness away from people. That's not really possible in Westeros.

That being said, I think I remember reading somewhere that GRRM said that the literal Dragons were added as an afterthought. Am I completely off base on this? If this is true, I can't see them being the ultimate super weapon, the key to defeating the WW/others, lightbringer, etc. While GRRM could certainly have altered the story to give the dragons a bigger significance, i just can't help but view them as a huge red herring.

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