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No, I dont even know why you would put those two event together.

Because Selmy compared the battle to the Battle of Redgrass Field, and GRRM likes to use history as foreshadowing.

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"there is nothing more terrifying, more glorious nor more absurd than battle in fact in my first i shat my armor"... Kinda reminiscent of Tyrion's self depreciating speech before the greenfork... And the Blackwater... Come to think of it he's by the Skahazadhan right now so I'd assume any time Tyrion is near or on a river he seems to get himself stuck in the middle of a battle....

On Tyrion being miserable I think it could be a few things

A) In the midst of a battle some of the yellow whale's slave catchers are trying to snatch him back before the Yunkai'i beat feet back to the yellow city

B) Nobody believes the Second Sons are in the middle of performing a never before attempted ultra triple turncloak so they're fighting the Crows the Iron Fleet the Cats the long lances and the Unsullied

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I'm convinced that come the end of Winds of Winter, Barristan Selmy will have been killed off.

Firstly I think he was only elevated to POV status for expositional purposes, ie to provide a window into the Yunkaii story arch whilst Dany and Jorah were absent. That purpose will soon be removed and we will have four POV characters in one location - Victarion, Dany, Tyrion, and Selmy, and it's too many. Jorah will be back as well, and though he is not - as of yet - a POV, he still offers an alternative confidant to Dany, and as a character is far more complex and compelling. Basically Selmy is a redundant character and I'm sure he will be prime candidate for removal. Odds on he's toast.

I'm looking forward to Jorah's return and redemption, because he is such an obsessional character. I think there's one more big betrayal in him yet.

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I'm convinced that come the end of Winds of Winter, Barristan Selmy will have been killed off.

Firstly I think he was only elevated to POV status for expositional purposes, ie to provide a window into the Yunkaii story arch whilst Dany and Jorah were absent. That purpose will soon be removed and we will have four POV characters in one location - Victarion, Dany, Tyrion, and Selmy, and it's too many. Jorah will be back as well, and though he is not - as of yet - a POV, he still offers an alternative confidant to Dany, and as a character is far more complex and compelling. Basically Selmy is a redundant character and I'm sure he will be prime candidate for removal. Odds on he's toast.

I'm looking forward to Jorah's return and redemption, because he is such an obsessional character. I think there's one more big betrayal in him yet.

While there seems to be foreshadowing of his death, I could also see Barristan being Danys betrayal for love if Septa Lenore is indeed Ashara Dayne.

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The Dornish aren't worth shit if they are forced to fight a victorious Tyrell army. Besides you must think ahead. Faegon still wants to marry Dany, he needs a reason to marry Arianne. If the Tyrell suffer the massive blow that I'm predicting than Faegon gets that reason. If he acquires the Dornish army he will be able to jump into the power vacuum left behind by the defeat of the Tyrells. Also by expanding his army in this way, he'll become a beacon for the disillussioned Reach men. Those Reach men aren't going to submit to the Ironborn (who can't reach them if they stay far enough from the rivers and sea) and with the Tyrells severely weakened they'll flock to their saviour Faegon.

The Tyrell victory over the Ironborn could be a pyrrhic victory. In that they win, but loose their own fleet in the process.

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"Only their shadows," Moqorro said. "One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

I recall at the Battle of Redgrass Field mentioned by Barristan, along with the fight between Baelor and Maekar, we have the fight between Bloodraven and Bittersteel. Bittersteel was a dark haired strong warrior who was always bitter and angry and loathed his brother BR while Victarion is a dark haired strong warrior who is angry and bitter in the POVs we see him in and he loathes his brother Euron.

Bittersteel manages to fight BR, and take out his eye. I think Victarion will kill Barristan, but Barristan will take out Victarion's eye.

I always thought that vision was about Victorian's death floating in the bloody water.

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I'm convinced that come the end of Winds of Winter, Barristan Selmy will have been killed off.

Firstly I think he was only elevated to POV status for expositional purposes, ie to provide a window into the Yunkaii story arch whilst Dany and Jorah were absent. That purpose will soon be removed and we will have four POV characters in one location - Victarion, Dany, Tyrion, and Selmy, and it's too many. Jorah will be back as well, and though he is not - as of yet - a POV, he still offers an alternative confidant to Dany, and as a character is far more complex and compelling. Basically Selmy is a redundant character and I'm sure he will be prime candidate for removal. Odds on he's toast.

I'm looking forward to Jorah's return and redemption, because he is such an obsessional character. I think there's one more big betrayal in him yet.

I see jorah being left behind. slave and slaver lord mormont will rule slavers bay in the name of new valyria. with dany on the great grass sea and vctarion having no intentions to stay. I see tyrion making the move to fill the vacuum and put jorah in charge. following resolution of the battle in mereen the conquest needs to move forward. barristan has even set up for this by promising pentos to the sellswords.

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wow!!! i'm soo excited...at this point..i just hope for a good sort of ending of the starks.I don't have high hopes for any of them left, including snow. but I'm excited to read about the ironborn in mereen..ooooo weeeeee

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Yea i agree, i think selmy will bite the dust, hes had his day, im sure he could still bring the pain but i think it more likely he will die doing some courageous thing or in a brutal showdown with some bad ass, if he does infact become the one to betray dany for love it would be a pretty big twist for me, IMO he seems the most determined to do right by dany instead of serving mad kings and drunks, so i find it quite unlikely, but who knows?

I do know one thing though, i cant wait for Victarion to rock up, whatever his fate, hes one bad ass mofo!

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The Tyrell victory over the Ironborn could be a pyrrhic victory. In that they win, but loose their own fleet in the process.

The big difference though, is there fleet would be rebuilt, pretty quickly, because of the reason it is so big in the first place; commerce. They have the wine, they need to ship it, big money.

I am seriously wondering how the Ironborn even get the fleet they did in the last 20 years. I would have just assumed it was more or less destroyed back during their rebellion.

Edit, oh there are slave soldiers whose honor may have kept them in line for a long, long time, and they probably led fairly comfortable lives, but this is THE SAVIOUR of their religion they have been sent to fight. They might not be rebelling for freedom, something they haven't done before, but for religion, maybe a lot more important to that group of people.

Edited by Whitering

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At Boskone, GRRM apparently read excerpts from two Barristan Selmy chapters from TWoW, according to a report I just received:

"he read excerpt of two barristan chapters, charging the yunkai camp w/ pit fighters and unsullied. Saved by victarian's fleet"

That's all I have at the moment... but anyone at the Boskone reading is more than welcome to provide a fuller report!

Via Reddit, a bit more:

That sounds totally fucking awesome!

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Wait....I don't get it, why would Tyrion be miserable?

Hmmm... I thought it was obvious why he would be miserable, but maybe its just me. He thinks the Second Sons are on the losing side, and wants Plumm to flip. Tyrion right now is betting his heart's desires (revenge, Tysha, and Casterly Rock, in some order) on Daenerys. Delivering, again, the Second Sons, plus hostages and dead enemies would be a nice way to show his value to somebody who also wants him dead as a Lannister. The Iron fleet attacking means ITS TO LATE TO SWITCH SIDES. The Unsullied are out in force, the pale mare has decimated the besieging forces, and the Iron Fleet now has them trapped (hammer and anvil). If the Sons were to try to switch sides now, they would be viewed more as vultures. Maybe Barristan would make use of them as he needs soldiers, but certainly in a place of honor. Or, maybe they just run down for siding with the slavers.

As an aside, thanks to the released Theon chapter, we know a Stannis man is going to be prowling Essos for mercenaries, but other than the Gold Company, it seems all the major mercenaries are in slaver's bay. I wonder if the Second Sons end up taking Stannis's gold as a way to get to Westeros, as Daenerys doesn't appear to be leaving anytime soon.

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As an aside, thanks to the released Theon chapter, we know a Stannis man is going to be prowling Essos for mercenaries, but other than the Gold Company, it seems all the major mercenaries are in slaver's bay. I wonder if the Second Sons end up taking Stannis's gold as a way to get to Westeros, as Daenerys doesn't appear to be leaving anytime soon.

You know thats super interesting. Everyone thinks Tyrion is about to join up with Dany and co, but if as you said they are looked at as vultures and have to flee, it would be a huge twist to have Tyrion wind up back at the wall and with Stannis or Jon.

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You know thats super interesting. Everyone thinks Tyrion is about to join up with Dany and co, but if as you said they are looked at as vultures and have to flee, it would be a huge twist to have Tyrion wind up back at the wall and with Stannis or Jon.

It would, but I don't think it would be that straight forward, going to the Wall. Tyrion knows he stands accused as a kin-slayer, and Stannis would execute him for that crime plus his brutal defense during the Blackwater battle (though first thank him for killing an Usurper and the backbone behind the Lannister power), or perhaps give him the alternative of taking the Black, which would end Tyrions ambitions regardless. That being said, Stannis has shown some limited ability to pardon people if they do him a good service and it is in everybody's best interest (e.g. Renly's bannermen). Tyrion is clever enough and enough of a gambler, I think he would risk trying to control/influence one of the kingdoms and offer its support to Stannis in exchange for a pardon of past crimes. Stannis would grind his teeth (harder) and do it, since otherwise he'd lose that support to one of the other pretenders. Or, maybe Tyrion would just skip ahead to siding with Aegon anyways. Or if Stannis dies, a Queen Shireen.

Dorne and the Westerlands are the obvious choices, though Dorne is now throwing its lot in with Aegon, and the rest of the Lannisters believe Tyrion killed their beloved Tywin. The North is Stannis's if he beats Roose. Which lets the Vale enter as a very interesting possibility. Much more for story reasons, but he can try to use his initial 500 men, join up again with the Hill Tribes, and find allies who would prefer to not to be Littlefinger's puppets by offering them an alternative. Of course, him being alive is a huge wrench in Littlefinger's plans regarding Sansa and would force a confrontation. Or, maybe he ends up in a Meereen dungeon. Tyrion does seem to end up arrested a lot.

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It would, but I don't think it would be that straight forward, going to the Wall. Tyrion knows he stands accused as a kin-slayer, and Stannis would execute him for that crime plus his brutal defense during the Blackwater battle (though first thank him for killing an Usurper and the backbone behind the Lannister power), or perhaps give him the alternative of taking the Black, which would end Tyrions ambitions regardless. That being said, Stannis has shown some limited ability to pardon people if they do him a good service and it is in everybody's best interest (e.g. Renly's bannermen). Tyrion is clever enough and enough of a gambler, I think he would risk trying to control/influence one of the kingdoms and offer its support to Stannis in exchange for a pardon of past crimes. Stannis would grind his teeth (harder) and do it, since otherwise he'd lose that support to one of the other pretenders. Or, maybe Tyrion would just skip ahead to siding with Aegon anyways. Or if Stannis dies, a Queen Shireen.

Dorne and the Westerlands are the obvious choices, though Dorne is now throwing its lot in with Aegon, and the rest of the Lannisters believe Tyrion killed their beloved Tywin. The North is Stannis's if he beats Roose. Which lets the Vale enter as a very interesting possibility. Much more for story reasons, but he can try to use his initial 500 men, join up again with the Hill Tribes, and find allies who would prefer to not to be Littlefinger's puppets by offering them an alternative. Of course, him being alive is a huge wrench in Littlefinger's plans regarding Sansa and would force a confrontation. Or, maybe he ends up in a Meereen dungeon. Tyrion does seem to end up arrested a lot.

Idk if Stannis would even care Tyrion was there, he would probably like it since he could use him to take the Westerlands. If Stannis wants to hire the Golden Company then he either doesn't anticipate the mercenaries staying or he is willing to pardon 10,000 exiles. 1 halfman shouldn't be too much more.

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And anyway i know I'm right about Dany being the Protagonist, so ppl can say whatever they want and I'll still know I'm right about that subject at least through all these books I am sure about Dany.

If I were you I wouldn't claim to know anything, but I've always agreed that Dany is the good guy of the story. Ever since the end of book one I've kind of had the thought in my mind that the real Song of Ice and Fire is about Bran (Ice) and Dany (Fire). Jon Snow and fAegon are just distractions in my opinion.

However, based on the latter half of ASOS and all of ADWD, I kind of think it's implied that Daenerys has inherited a bit of the "taint" of the Targaryens.

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