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Sorry about the multiposts. I was afraid my bacon was burning.

Don't burn that bacon!

I'm pretty sure the missing elephants turned in a mention in one of the sample chapters.

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I know this has no bearing whatsoever, but Selmy sounds exactly like Sell me, and Barristan has given his oath to 3 different rulers, and also served Belwas, although I'm pretty sure no oaths are taken in order to squire for someone.

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Selmy is described as the greatest fighter alive and his greatness cannot be wasted by battling savage foreigners alongside "warriors" on stilts. He is destined to do something great and sacrifice himself for his monarch, but this should happen in Westeros. Barristan will outlive the Meereneese knot.

Edited by gendarme

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Selmy is described as the greatest fighter alive and his greatness cannot be wasted by battling savage foreigners alongside "warriors" on stilts. He is destined to do something great and sacrifice himself for his monarch, but this should happen in Westeros. Barristan will outlive the Meereneese knot.

Maester Aemon was seemingly beloved by everyone who met him, the last known legitimate Targaryen in Westeros, and possibly the oldest man in Westeros. And he caught a cold and died on a boat in the middle of nowhere. And got put in a barrel and pickled for the rest of the voyage. So... yeah.

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Selmy is described as the greatest fighter alive and his greatness cannot be wasted by battling savage foreigners alongside "warriors" on stilts. He is destined to do something great and sacrifice himself for his monarch, but this should happen in Westeros. Barristan will outlive the Meereneese knot.

Counterpoint: The author is GRRM...

Another thing that I have been thinking about when I read this thread is that many of you think that

1) Victarion blowing the dragon horn will confuse Barristans men to think its their retreat signal:

-This is the horn described as nothing you have ever heard before, the battlefield should be littered with horns blowing different commands and they are not going to mistake the Dragon horn for their own!

2) Victarion wont recognize friend or foe and will attack Barristans army as-well:

-While this is plausible I think we are forgetting that Ironmen are not seen as that great of warriors on land and should not really prove a match for the Unsullied

Edited by bobbechk

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Selmy is described as the greatest fighter alive and his greatness cannot be wasted by battling savage foreigners alongside "warriors" on stilts. He is destined to do something great and sacrifice himself for his monarch, but this should happen in Westeros. Barristan will outlive the Meereneese knot.

Counterpoint: The author is GRRM...

Another thing that I have been thinking about when I read this thread is that many of you think that

1) Victarion blowing the dragon horn will confuse Barristans men to think its their retreat signal:

-This is the horn described as nothing you have ever heard before, the battlefield should be littered with horns blowing different commands and they are not going to mistake the Dragon horn for their own!

2) Victarion wont recognize friend or foe and will attack Barristans army as-well:

-While this is plausible I think we are forgetting that Ironmen are not seen as that great of warriors on land and should not really prove a match for the Unsullied

Barristan Selmy WAS at one time, described as THE GREATEST KNIGHT, he was never described as the greatest fighter, in fact we have numerous examples of people at least claiming to be better. As long as he was alive Arthur Dayne is said to have been the greatest swordsmen on the kg. Jaime lists himself then Meryn trant as the most dangerous men on the kg, not Selmy, because by that time Selmy had been slowed by his age Edit: ( I presume). Jaime did not even consider Barristan in the top 10 anymore.

I don't think Victarion is incapable of recognizing friend from foe, he may not be book smart but he is a seasoned commander and while Tyrion and the sellswods might not, Selmy has dragon banners.

Edited by aryagonnakill

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Barristan Selmy WAS at one time, described as THE GREATEST KNIGHT, he was never described as the greatest fighter, in fact we have numerous examples of people at least claiming to be better. As long as he was alive Arthur Dayne is said to have been the greatest swordsmen on the kg. Jaime lists himself then Meryn trant as the most dangerous men on the kg, not Selmy, because by that time Selmy had been slowed by his age Edit: ( I presume). Jaime did not even consider Barristan in the top 10 anymore.

I don't think Victarion is incapable of recognizing friend from foe, he may not be book smart but he is a seasoned commander and while Tyrion and the sellswods might not, Selmy has dragon banners.

I'm sure Vicatorian noticed Selmy walking around the Pyke and Stannis destroyed his fleet and Robert crushed the ironborn rebellion.

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Victarion's POV screams and begs for an epic one-on-one fight. He's already had one excellent one, but it was short and Serry wasn't really his match. Now he has his special burned hand and he specifically yearns to fight the best of the best:

He would give half his teeth for the chance to try his axe against the Kingslayer or the Knight of Flowers. That was the sort of battle that he understood.

and the Company of the Cat seem to be the fighting the Ironborn (perhaps with the Long Lances), so if he aims to seek out the best of theirs, no doubt he will notice this large red bearded man:

Bloodbeard, the savage commander of the Cats, was a roaring giant with a ferocious appetite for slaughter.

I'm calling it now, Victarion vs. Bloodbeard in single combat. Vic wins.

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Barristan Selmy WAS at one time, described as THE GREATEST KNIGHT, he was never described as the greatest fighter, in fact we have numerous examples of people at least claiming to be better. As long as he was alive Arthur Dayne is said to have been the greatest swordsmen on the kg. Jaime lists himself then Meryn trant as the most dangerous men on the kg, not Selmy, because by that time Selmy had been slowed by his age Edit: ( I presume). Jaime did not even consider Barristan in the top 10 anymore.

I don't think Victarion is incapable of recognizing friend from foe, he may not be book smart but he is a seasoned commander and while Tyrion and the sellswods might not, Selmy has dragon banners.

GRRM once said, (and it wasn't that long ago so I could probably find it if necessary) that Barristan and Arthur Dayne, both in their primes and equally armed, would be too close to call. If Dayne gets to use Dawn then he'd win. So Barristan was as good as it gets. Now of course he's just very very good, it seems.

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Has anyone read the set of essays on the General page arguing that the Ghiscari are more rational and competent then they appear to be? It argues that the Shavepate is like to Littlefinger, that he is the one that poisoned the locusts, and that he is truly looking to cement his own power.

With this new theory in mind, let's think about where he is at the present -- inside the city walls with all of the Brazen Beasts! What if he decides to close the gates, effectively taking power for himself and not allowing anyone else in?

This would lead to one of the best possible endings of the battle: Victarion using the dragon(s) to torch the city to the ground. Oh, the possibilities!

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Has anyone read the set of essays on the General page arguing that the Ghiscari are more rational and competent then they appear to be? It argues that the Shavepate is like to Littlefinger, that he is the one that poisoned the locusts, and that he is truly looking to cement his own power.

With this new theory in mind, let's think about where he is at the present -- inside the city walls with all of the Brazen Beasts! What if he decides to close the gates, effectively taking power for himself and not allowing anyone else in?

This would lead to one of the best possible endings of the battle: Victarion using the dragon(s) to torch the city to the ground. Oh, the possibilities!

Now that's a happy ending to this particular storyline! GRRM can't believably make Daenerys leave Slaver's Bay, so he sends in an Ironborn reaver with a potential to control dragons to the rescue! With such an arsenal at his disposal, Victarion will be able to reave and pillage to the best of his ancestors' practices. Moreover, it will provide closure to a particularly irritating storyline. It is also notable that Victarion's name foreshadows him being victorious (at least once) before he dies. What better opportunity than some incompetent slaver armies on stilts besieging a city full of morons? He will be doing them all a favour, really...

Edited by Nucky Thompson

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Shavepate can't pull that off because Barristan left 3k Unsullied inside the city.

I have to agree with this; Shavepate wouldn't want to close the gates on Barristan because if Barristan loses then the battle and Meereen is lost. The Yunkai'i will have his head.

Edited by Fire Eater

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Has anyone read the set of essays on the General page arguing that the Ghiscari are more rational and competent then they appear to be? It argues that the Shavepate is like to Littlefinger, that he is the one that poisoned the locusts, and that he is truly looking to cement his own power.

With this new theory in mind, let's think about where he is at the present -- inside the city walls with all of the Brazen Beasts! What if he decides to close the gates, effectively taking power for himself and not allowing anyone else in?

This would lead to one of the best possible endings of the battle: Victarion using the dragon(s) to torch the city to the ground. Oh, the possibilities!

Altough I believe if might happen, I dont think it would be a smart move of the Shavepate.

if theory is correct, Shavepate is not trying to overtrow Dany, but trying to assure that his "social group" is the main force of the city.

His group is enemy of Meeren nobles that are allied of Yunkaish. Without Dany, he fears that he and his fellows will be murdered and subjugated in time under the rule of Hizdar.

He wanted Dany to use her power to crush Meerense nobility and the harpy, and now he is doing what he thinks she should have done.

Even if he knew she was to come back, I think he would try to manipulate things to end like that.

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Let summarize this for myself. Current thinking is that Shavepate is playing Dany, Nobles, and Yunkaish off of each other (with Dany has the victor, Nobles/Yunkaish destroyed) to cement his position as the administrating power in the city.


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That will be interesting.



Two men (Selmy and Vic) that - i assume - hate nothing more than playing the game of thrones and will ,inevitably, go at it... that is if they survive the battle and are on friendly terms.


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I am still unsure of where Victarion's ultimate loyalty is placed. Looks like, win or lose, he may go with several different choices.


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The sample chapter from The Winds of Winter in the new US paperback of ADWD released on 10/29 will be Ser Barristan I (posting here because the original post was locked and I thought you people might find it interesting, but I didn't want to start a new thread). :)



http://famousmonsters.com/archives/sludge/george-r-r-martins-a-dance-with-dragons-arrives-in-paperback-with-sneak-preview


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