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Why would the dragons burn down Meereen? Left to themselves they don't seem interested in doing so--they want to snack on passing Meereenese, perhaps, but they don't have an interest in destroying the city as such. (It's made of brick, too, so it's not as flammable as all that either.) And Victarion or Euron would have no reason to want Meereen destroyed, because they wouldn't want to alienate Daenerys, and because they don't ultimately give a shit about Meereen either way.

That sounds like a contrivance to fix a perceived problem: that Meereen is boring, and Dany in Meereen is boring, so might as well burn the place down. But that doesn't make it a plausible direction for the story.

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Why would the dragons burn down Meereen? Left to themselves they don't seem interested in doing so--they want to snack on passing Meereenese, perhaps, but they don't have an interest in destroying the city as such. (It's made of brick, too, so it's not as flammable as all that either.) And Victarion or Euron would have no reason to want Meereen destroyed, because they wouldn't want to alienate Daenerys, and because they don't ultimately give a shit about Meereen either way.

That sounds like a contrivance to fix a perceived problem: that Meereen is boring, and Dany in Meereen is boring, so might as well burn the place down. But that doesn't make it a plausible direction for the story.

How is it contrived at all if Vic uses the dragonhorn. It's not like he has a precise remote control for dragons once their unleashed. And dragonfire can burn anything.

Edited by seppuku

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It's not contrived at all if Vic uses the dragonhorn. It's no like he has remote control for dragons once their unleashed. And dragonfire can burn anything.

Wait... if the dragonhorn isn't a 'remote control' for the dragons, in what sense does it control dragons?

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Why would the dragons burn down Meereen? Left to themselves they don't seem interested in doing so--they want to snack on passing Meereenese, perhaps, but they don't have an interest in destroying the city as such. (It's made of brick, too, so it's not as flammable as all that either.) And Victarion or Euron would have no reason to want Meereen destroyed, because they wouldn't want to alienate Daenerys, and because they don't ultimately give a shit about Meereen either way.

That sounds like a contrivance to fix a perceived problem: that Meereen is boring, and Dany in Meereen is boring, so might as well burn the place down. But that doesn't make it a plausible direction for the story.

I think the idea of Meereen getting torched is inspired by the fact that Vic has the horn that reportedly controls them and that Vic would control the dragons the only way he knows how to - Vic ie dragons SMASH! And burn. :dunno:

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Seriously, now, I have a good feeling about TWOW. I think we'll see it next year.

Too optimistic.

I have a bad feeling for Ser Barristan now.

He wants to live that day and he will never again question the loyalty of sellswords, in other words: he is dead meat.

If that's an accurate quote, it's courage, not loyality he's surprised by.

are the dragons large enough to create a "field of fire"

I don't think there are any fields to set fire to in Meereen.

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I think the idea of Meereen getting torched is inspired by the fact that Vic has the horn that reportedly controls them and that Vic would control the dragons the only way he knows how to - Vic ie dragons SMASH! And burn. :dunno:

I think that's silly. Victarion can tell the difference between burning a rival army and burning the city that he's supposedly fighting for. He's not the most clever person in the series, but he's not some drooling moron.

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Wait... if the dragonhorn isn't a 'remote control' for the dragons, in what sense does it control dragons?

We don't know exactly but you don't think if it's going to ugly you're intentionally being obtuse.

Edited by seppuku

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I took a lot of notes. Huge spoilers here!

[GRRM announced that he would read two new chapters, even though he wonders why he is giving more and more of the next book away.]

.

If the told those words, but it sounds great for me.

I dunno, maybe im too optmistic, but it sounds too me that he is enjoying his writing and his crazy to share his work with the audiance.

Since he has to finish his work to publish the book , he makes those readings to share his work and see public rection

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I think that's silly. Victarion can tell the difference between burning a rival army and burning the city that he's supposedly fighting for. He's not the most clever person in the series, but he's not some drooling moron.

That's silly. Vic's plan is to take the Dragons and his queen. Not 'fight for her'.

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We don't know exactly but you don't think it's going to ugly you're intentionally being obtuse.

"Going to be ugly" is not the same thing as "will burn a major city to the ground."

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I think that's silly. Victarion can tell the difference between burning a rival army and burning the city that he's supposedly fighting for. He's not the most clever person in the series, but he's not some drooling moron.

Oh, I agree. I just think that's part of the reasoning of the burning Meereen thing, not saying I agree with it... I guess Vic is expected to go trigger happy with the dragons, or something. Or it's just what people want to see - Meereen gone, as you've said...

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Someone pointed out that Barristan, in riding Dany's silver, is literally "riding the pale mare."

That sounds like a contrivance to fix a perceived problem: that Meereen is boring, and Dany in Meereen is boring, so might as well burn the place down. But that doesn't make it a plausible direction for the story.

Just because it's a convenient contrivance doesn't mean that GRRM won't do it. He's taken Dany out of the action in Meereen in part, I suspect, that when things truly go to hell in Meereen in Dany's absence due no doubt to Victarion's boneheaded actions, Dany will be absolved of any direct responsibility for the catastrophe.

It does make sense that Dany won't abandon Meereen unless either 1) it's restored to stability and no longer "needs" her or 2) it's utterly destroyed and beyond her ability to save. Scenario 1 doesn't seem super likely, so it seems like Scenario 2 (the destruction of Meereen in Dany's absence) is the likely outcome.

[Victarion's] not the most clever person in the series, but he's not some drooling moron.

I thought GRRM did independently confirm that Victarion is, in fact, as dumb as a post.

Edited by Newstar

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I took a lot of notes. Huge spoilers here!

[GRRM announced that he would read two new chapters, even though he wonders why he is giving more and more of the next book away.]

SER BARRISTAN I

More bodies fall from the sky. Barristan notices Tumco Lho’s reaction and sees that the lad fears the pale more more than the foes outside the gates. Barristan then gives a stirring pep talk about how every man fears every battle. At first, the Red Lamb is defiant, saying that doesn’t fear death because at that point he’ll get to meet the Great Shepherd -- when he plans to break his shepherd’s crook in two and castigate the shepherd for creating such a peaceful people in such a violent world.

SER BARRISTAN II

He cuts the head off of one of the herons and his lads join the fray. Dany’s horse knocks a heron into three others and they all fall over. In a moment, the herons are scattering and running away, led by the Little Pigeon himself. Unfortunately for the Little Pigeon, he trips over the fringes of his bird armor and gets caught by the Red Lamb. The Little Pigeon begs for mercy, saying that he will fetch a large ransom. The Red Lamb just says “I came for blood, not gold” and knocks in the Little Pigeon’s head with his mace, splattering blood all over Barristan and Dany’s silver horse.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: The Red Lamb, by far the coolest new character in ADWD, glad to see the lad getting some screentime

Overall Great chapters :smoking:

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It could be and is very likely.

That's an assertion, not an argument. Yes, dragonfire is an imprecise weapon, but Victarion's enemies are outside the city of Meereen, not within it. Surely if anything Victarion could direct the dragons to attack the organized forces beyond the walls; if he can't do that, then he doesn't have control over the dragons in any real sense. (The big problem, perhaps, would be if Barristan's forces didn't retreat in time, but that's very different.)

Regarding your earlier post, the fact that Victarion doesn't care much about Meereen in the first place is a good reason why he wouldn't care enough to destroy it, especially when it could potentially alienate 'his queen'. And once Victarion has chased off the Yunkish forces, he's going to need a base of operations to seek out Daenerys, so he would have no reason to burn Meereen at that time. And then once he finds Daenerys, his business is concluded and he might as well GTFO. At that point he would have no reason to burn Meereen, which is unlikely to pose a threat to his rule in Westeros and may well be controlled by allies. At no point would it be in Victarion's interests to burn down the city.

I thought GRRM did independently confirm that Victarion is, in fact, as dumb as a post.

Dumb compared to Euron? Sure. But people exaggerate his lack of intelligence. He's been leading men for a long time. If he was as stupid as some people think, he wouldn't still be in charge of the Iron Fleet. Balon would have replaced him a long time ago.

Edited by Harry the Heir

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That's an assertion, not an argument. Yes, dragonfire is an imprecise weapon, but Victarion's enemies are outside the city of Meereen, not within it. Surely if anything Victarion could direct the dragons to attack the organized forces beyond the walls; if he can't do that, then he doesn't have control over the dragons in any real sense. (The big problem, perhaps, would be if Barristan's forces didn't retreat in time, but that's very different.)

Regarding your earlier post, the fact that Victarion doesn't care much about Meereen in the first place is a good reason why he wouldn't care enough to destroy it, especially when it could potentially alienate 'his queen'. And once Victarion has chased off the Yunkish forces, he's going to need a base of operations to seek out Daenerys, so he would have no reason to burn Meereen at that time. And then once he finds Daenerys, his business is concluded and he might as well GTFO. At that point he would have no reason to burn Meereen, which is unlikely to pose a threat to his rule in Westeros and may well be controlled by allies. At no point would it be in Victarion's interests to burn down the city.

I think you are right, but I'm still hoping for Dany to pull a Nymeria on Mereen and burning the city to the ground when she leaves for Westeros. :hat:

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Well, if dragons come into play then an uncontrolled fire is not that far fetched. I mean, "controlling dragons" is a kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?

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Well, if dragons come into play then an uncontrolled fire is not that far fetched. I mean, "controlling dragons" is a kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?

Fires will certainly break out, I'm sure. But enough to destroy the city? That's a little hard for me to imagine. Again, the dragons are already free, and they haven't come close to burning down the city yet. Why would they be a bigger danger once they've been placed under human control and sent outside of the city?

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Fires will certainly break out, I'm sure. But enough to destroy the city? That's a little hard for me to imagine. Again, the dragons are already free, and they haven't come close to burning down the city yet. Why would they be a bigger danger once they've been placed under human control and sent outside of the city?

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, I'll be a bit upset if I had to read all that stuff about Meereen just for it to get completely burned in the next book :dunno:

But, again, controlling dragons is shaky ground...

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Yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, I'll be a bit upset if I had to read all that stuff about Meereen just for it to get completely burned in the next book :dunno:

But, again, controlling dragons is shaky ground...

Sure. But the Valyrians did it for a very long time. Presumably they wouldn't have fostered dragonriding if cities were always been destroyed by accident.

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