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Sure. But the Valyrians did it for a very long time. Presumably they wouldn't have fostered dragonriding if cities were always been destroyed by accident.

Ah, yes - but Dany kind of neglected them...

We shall see, but Meereen is definitely shaping up to be much more interesting, whatever happens. But I also doubt it will burn to ground. Just a bit :devil:

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So Shavepate has control of the city once Barristan and troops are outside the wall. How interesting it would be if he closes the city gates and does not let them back in once the besiegers are destroyed.

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I think Little Pigeon's fate might parallel that of Littlefinger's. This is the description of LP from ADWD:

The Little Pigeon was not quite a dwarf, but he might have passed for one in a bad light. Yet he strutted about as if he were a giant, with his plump little legs spread wide and his plump little chest puffed out.

A little man with a big ego, sounds a bit like LF. This is how he dies according to Azador's report:

Little Pigeon, he trips over the fringes of his bird armor and gets caught by the Red Lamb. The Little Pigeon begs for mercy, saying that he will fetch a large ransom. The Red Lamb just says “I came for blood, not gold”

He trips over his bird armor, and dies for it. LF is planning on (supposedly) marrying Sansa, the little bird, off to some powerful man (Harry the Heir at the moment, but that could change) so that he can secure his own position. I suppose you could say she is kind of like his armor.

He gets killed by a lamb. and LF says this in ACOK:

“I’ve never been frightened of shepherds. It’s the sheep who trouble me. Still, I suppose an escort might be in order.”

The Red Lamb who kills LP is not interested in gold, only blood. I'm struggling to connect him to anyone. Here is the only description of him from ADWD:

the one the other boys called Red Lamb, though as yet that one was all ferocity and no technique.

I'm thinking maybe the Hound....but the Hound was interested in gold at one point, so it's not a perfect connection. If someone can think of a better fit, please do.

Edited by Ser Wun Wun

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I think Little Pigeon's fate might parallel that of Littlefinger's. This is the description of LP from ADWD:

A little man with a big ego, sounds a bit like LF. This is how he dies according to Azador's report:

He trips over his bird armor, and dies for it. LF is planning on (supposedly) marrying Sansa, the little bird, off to some powerful man (Harry the Heir at the moment, but that could change) so that he can secure his own position. I suppose you could say she is kind of like his armor.

LP ultimately gets caught by the Red Lamb, who is not interested in gold, only blood. I'm struggling to connect him to anyone. Here is the only description of him from ADWD:

I'm thinking maybe the Hound....but the Hound was interested in gold at one point, so it's not a perfect connection. If someone can think of a better fit, please do.

I dunno why, but I thought of Pod. He's kind of meek (as a lamb) but a ferocious fighter :dunno:

Also, the Little Pigeon's description fits with Tyrion as well...

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I dunno why, but I thought of Pod. He's kind of meek (as a lamb) but a ferocious fighter :dunno:

Also, the Little Pigeon's description fits with Tyrion as well...

Ah, yes it does kind of, doesn't it. I could definitely see it coming down to Tyrion trying to save his own life by "hiding" behind his marriage to Sansa, his bird armor, by the end of the story (you know, when the Starks win). Pod killing Tyrion would be....interesting to say the least :wideeyed:

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Ah, yes it does kind of, doesn't it. I could definitely see it coming down to Tyrion trying to save his own life by "hiding" behind his marriage to Sansa, his bird armor, by the end of the story (you know, when the Starks win). Pod killing Tyrion would be....interesting to say the least :wideeyed:

Or Pod killing LF :devil: The description fits both LF and Tyrion, in foreshadowing purposes, and GRRM always kind of gives us more than one option, so we can never know for sure what's he going to do.

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Or Pod killing LF :devil: The description fits both LF and Tyrion, in foreshadowing purposes, and GRRM always kind of gives us more than one option, so we can never know for sure what's he going to do.

And LF does say this in ACOK:

“I’ve never been frightened of shepherds. It’s the sheep who trouble me. Still, I suppose an escort might be in order.”

He is frightened of Sheep, aka lambs. I should add that to the original post! :)

Edited by Ser Wun Wun

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And LF does say this in ACOK:

He is frightened of Sheep, aka lambs. I should add that to the original post! :)

Oh, wow! Great find! Also, you should post this under spoilers in the Foreshadowing thread :)

ETA: Also, Sansa was so frightened of Illyn Payne - and another Payne saving her would be interesting... but since this is off topic I hope you post in the foreshadowing thread so we could continue there.

Edited by Little Wing

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And just think, this is one of two battles TWOW opens with.

I can't wait to read about Bolton and Frey blood staining snow.

How come GRRM didn't have Boskone on his appearance page on his website?

Edited by Sour Billy Tipton

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Or Pod killing LF :devil: The description fits both LF and Tyrion, in foreshadowing purposes, and GRRM always kind of gives us more than one option, so we can never know for sure what's he going to do.

I see your prediction of Pod = Red Lamb (who kills Littlefinger = Little Pigeon) and raise you Timett son of Timett = Red Lamb = one who kills Littlefinger. Ferocious? Check. Young? Check. (The Red Lamb is closer to Timett's age than Pod's, since Timett was younger than 20 as of AGOT.) Likely to tangle with Littlefinger in the near future? Check. Unlikely to be bribed by Littlefinger? Check.

More to the point, what's Timett's title within the Burned Men? The Red Hand.

Edited by Newstar

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I see your prediction of Pod = Red Lamb (who kills Littlefinger = Little Pigeon) and raise you Timett son of Timett = Red Lamb = one who kills Littlefinger. Ferocious? Check. Young? Check. (The Red Lamb is closer to Timett's age than Pod's, since Timett was younger than 20 as of AGOT.) Likely to tangle with Littlefinger in the near future? Check. Unlikely to be bribed by Littlefinger? Check.

More to the point, what's Timett's title within the Burned Men? The Red Hand.

Oooh... Nice. Ser Wun Wun's posted in the Foreshadowing thread, so you might wanna share this there too :)

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Thanks so much, Azador! I really hated the Dany/Mereen stuff, but reading your notes makes me realize it's taking a turn for the better (imo only) in WoW... just what I needed to get pumped again for the Essos storyline.

TY TY TY :-)

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Thanks Ran and Azador

I do kind of feel bad for the slaves of the Clanker Lords, some of them might be willing to fight on Dany's side, but can't because they're chained to other slaves.

Larraq is taking after his mentor already, he takes an arrow to the chest, but shrugs it off. In the Defiance of Duskendale, Barristan took a quarrel to the chest as well when rescuing his king.

Given that Maekar ended up eventually killing Baelor Breakspear, this comparison might not presage positive future relations between Barristan and Victarion.

Nice one, Maekar was on the defense while Baelor took them in the rear. In that case, Barristan, since he was leading the defense, may play the role of Maekar and Victarion, the one bringing fresh troops to the battle, the role of Baelor. But GRRM has a habit of switching circumstances for historical parallels.

Edited by Fire Eater

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1. Barristan wondering wether the Greyjoys are with Joffrey. Does that mean he isn't even aware that he died? They really know nothing about Westeros...

2. Barristan is overjoyed that the Greyjoys are with them. At one point it is understandable, he needs everyone on their side.

But he again is not aware how much of a bad rep they have in Westeros.

It seems more and more like a huge PR disaster to Dany when she finally reaches Westeros. If Barristan dies as some speculate, the only positive image/ally will perish...

3. Nice one from those of you who pointed out about the Red Sheep and Little Pigeon possible paralels with LFs fate.

Btw.: I think I read somewhere that Timmet might come before Harry the heir when it comes to the iline of succession in the Vale, some speculated that.

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what about the two dornishmen?

They'll probably show up in Tyrion's next chapter, as they were sent to rescue the hostages and that's just what Tyrion is trying to convince Plumm to do.

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So it's looking like this is our order of the Fire Battle so far:

  • Barristan I: Prepares to march
  • Victarion I: Prepares to sail in
  • Tyrion I: Tries to convince Plumm to flip, waits for Barristan to march, sees Victarion's fleet sail in
  • Barristan II: The battle. Notices Victarion's ships.

At this point things are going really well for Dany's side. So we're probably very close to the point where the dragon horn gets blown and things go pear-shaped in some insane way.

AMEN,

Once the Dragon Horn is blown, I think total chaos will break out . . . with Ser Selmy dying in the battle, maybe even Victarion. Selmy won't survive this day, I feel it . . we all have read enough GRRM to know as when it seemed Stannis had won Blackwater, out of no where he got smashed by the Tyrell and Lannister Hosts and a Tyrell dressed as Renly.

Also, one thing GRRM has taught us, "NEVER TRUST A SELLSWORD."

Bronn bailed on Tyrion

Brown Ben Plumm had his gold taken by his Sgt then betrayed Dany,

Daario killed his captain and took control of the company,

The Second Sons, StormCrows betrayed The Yunkai.

Chaos is about to break out . .

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ALL of these chapters we've seen from TWoW make it seem like it is going to be on par with the first three books not the last two. These chapters are nothing short of epic!

A few things I'm curious about though: a lot of people think the battle isn't over. I can't believe we'll get too many more chapters on the battle itself because that would eat up a large chunk of the book. Maybe one more Victarion chapter? And that's where we see things going wrong?

Does Victarion know who he's fighting for? Or is he just cutting threw anyone in his way? I can't imagine it's that easy to distinguish Dany's men from the Yunkai'i?

Also, everyone's talking about why Tyrion would be miserable. I hope to god it's not that he's captured again, but I don't know if it's just that glory has been taken from him. Will his plan, whatever it was exactly, be able to unfold now? Will he be able to prove that he did or intended to fight for Dany with Victarion attacking from the shores?

I'm so very excited for this now! It's like Blackwater epic. I'll definitely have to reread Dany's chapters a lot to get a good grasp on all these people though, I don't remember many of them.

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