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Ran

[TWoW Spoilers] Barristan

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That's what I thought. Just wanted to know if it was published elsewhere (G.R.R.M.'s blog, for example).

I believe that the Barristan in the Dance paperback is Barristan I. It's not published elsewhere. Barristsn II has only been read at a convention.

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What is not to be trusted? After his brother dishonored him by impregnating his wife, Vic is forced to kill his wife for the dishonor but he can't kill his bro because of some ancient taboo, so his other brother sent the first brother away but he returns after two years right as other brother dies. First bro takes command, sends vic fighting before sending him half way around the world to bring back a wife who vic plans to take for himself. What could possibly go wrong


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What is not to be trusted? After his brother dishonored him by impregnating his wife, Vic is forced to kill his wife for the dishonor but he can't kill his bro because of some ancient taboo, so his other brother sent the first brother away but he returns after two years right as other brother dies. First bro takes command, sends vic fighting before sending him half way around the world to bring back a wife who vic plans to take for himself. What could possibly go wrong

Forced? By who?

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Forced? By who?

Forced may be the wrong word. But I can see what Dorian Martell means. It is expected by the Ironborn culture that Victarion kills his wife after the infidelity. Disgusting yes, but there it is.

(Note that in many countries even today, the woman is always "more" at fault than the man if she commits adultery)

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Forced may be the wrong word. But I can see what Dorian Martell means. It is expected by the Ironborn culture that Victarion kills his wife after the infidelity. Disgusting yes, but there it is.

(Note that in many countries even today, the woman is always "more" at fault than the man if she commits adultery)

Ok, but are we certain that it was consensual on her part? Are we certain it wasn't rape? I know that Euron said she came willingly, but it was Euron who said it, so I took it with a grain of salt.

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Ok, but are we certain that it was consensual on her part? Are we certain it wasn't rape? I know that Euron said she came willingly, but it was Euron who said it, so I took it with a grain of salt.

I suppose we will never know. But again, if a woman "dishonors" the marriage bed, even if she is raped, in some countries today she is still considered in the wrong...So I guess Ironborn culture works along the same lines, and Victarion was expected to kill her or be considered inferior or something like that. Its awful isn't it? :(

Edited by HelenaAndTheMachine

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I suppose we will never know. But again, if a woman "dishonors" the marriage bed, even if she is raped, in some countries today she is still considered in the wrong...So I guess Ironborn culture works along the same lines, and Victarion was expected to kill her or be considered inferior or something like that. Its awful isn't it? :(

Yeah, it still works that way in some cultures today. So that could be it. It's awful indeed.

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Ok, but are we certain that it was consensual on her part? Are we certain it wasn't rape? I know that Euron said she came willingly, but it was Euron who said it, so I took it with a grain of salt.

Euron seems like he wouldn't have much problem with the ladies. That bastard girl is all over him after he takes her father's castle on the Shields, and I don't imagine his bastards came from rape (why would he go back 9 months later to collect the kid after raping some random woman in a foreign land?). The Kingsmoot showed his charisma.

When you consider that the woman was a "salt wife," kidnapped by big, dumb, no-game Victarion, it's not hard to see how she'd come to Euron willingly.

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Euron seems like he wouldn't have much problem with the ladies. That bastard girl is all over him after he takes her father's castle on the Shields, and I don't imagine his bastards came from rape (why would he go back 9 months later to collect the kid after raping some random woman in a foreign land?). The Kingsmoot showed his charisma.

When you consider that the woman was a "salt wife," kidnapped by big, dumb, no-game Victarion, it's not hard to see how she'd come to Euron willingly.

It's her word against Euron's. Considering Euron most likely sexually abused Aeron, I'm inclined to believe her.

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Now that I think about it (and after a re-read), I guess the Volatene fleet will turn against Volantis. The ships are most probably captained by slaves and that old woman said they were waiting for Daenerys, so it's not a wild guess if they turn to Daenerys side. Even though, I don't know how they'll recognize who's fighting who at the battle.


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Being inside barries head when he realizes the greyjoys are on his side and that he may actually survive the day is phenomenal writing it gave me goosebumps

Edited by dRagonese

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Euron seems like he wouldn't have much problem with the ladies. That bastard girl is all over him after he takes her father's castle on the Shields, and I don't imagine his bastards came from rape (why would he go back 9 months later to collect the kid after raping some random woman in a foreign land?). The Kingsmoot showed his charisma.

When you consider that the woman was a "salt wife," kidnapped by big, dumb, no-game Victarion, it's not hard to see how she'd come to Euron willingly.

Yes, but if she's going to be killed either way, there's no point in saying it was rape if it wasn't. Besides, plenty of rapists are very attractive and have lots of girlfriends and no trouble at all getting women. They just don't see a reason to listen when some woman says no. And in cultures where women get killed either way, rape is even more common than it is elsewhere, because nobody really cares about the women except as kind of game tokens.

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I used to dislike the Meereenese plotline, but I changed my mind after checking the summaries of Barristan's sample chapters and rereading Dany's, Tyrion's, Quentyn's, Barristan's and Victarion's chapters from ADwD. It's really not as bad as many people believe, but since ADwD is a massive book with many POV characters and Westeros is the main focus of the series, the Meereenese plotline easily loses steam and it's hard to remember all the details. Moreover, the lack of battle at the end makes everything a bit unsatisfying. IMO it will be a lot better when TWoW comes out and fans will no longer have to wait several years to see how the Meereenese Knot is untangled.



When you think about it, there is really a lot going on in the region. We have the whole Harpy thing, the uncertain loyalties of Hizdair, the Green Grace and Shavepate, the ongoing siege, the plague, the rampaging dragons, the dragon horn, incoming fleets of the ironborn and Voltanis, Dany and the Dothraki etc. I'm now actually very curious to see how it will all play out and Barristan's sample chapters make me think that it will be a hell of a ride.


Edited by Cybvep

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