Jaime heads north

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Bran has that Dream in GoT where the Hound, Jaime and a headless Knight are all racing to save Sansa in the Riverlands. The dream seems to me too similar to the current situation to be anything other than prophetic. I am certain that is where Jaime is heading to next.

A lot of people seem to give UnCat a lot of thinking and reasoning power which I just don't see her posessing. Beric's mission before he was brought back was to bring justice to the Riverlands, it was his final mission and possible final thought. When back all he cares about is bringing justice, he forgets family, friends, his home, his experiences he just cares about justice. I don't think you could persuade him ever to change and when the Hound wins his battle he sees justice as being done and won't let him be harmed. He brings Cat back not because he feels for her but because it was treachery and he had the power to rectify some of it. To him justice was bringing her back to life.

Similarly with Cat, her last act in the world was revenge and UnCat sole thought process seems to be revenge. She has become the embodiment of that emotion. Like Beric she is going to have forgotten family and friends she just remembers those who have wronged her and want them dead. Freys, Lannisters (Jaime most of all). I don't think there's any persuading her not to kill Jaime if she had him. Even if she hears Sansa is alive and Jaime can save her she wouldn't care. UnCat's mission isn't to save Cat's children, she'd be using the brotherhood to actively search for them rather than killing Freys if it was.

I think Jaime might have to kill UnCat or maybe appeal to the compassion of the Brotherhood to help him.

[Tini]

Or she may command him to bring her little brother to her - how would they trust Jaime would keep his part of the bargain, though, is another matter.

That is something that never occurred to me, maybe because Catelyn did not seem close to Edmure. But if Stoneheart still feels connected to living family members, she might try to free Edmure.

Unless she believes Edmure to be a traitor. The Red Wedding was Edmure's wedding after all, and he survived it married to a Frey. Then Jaime let him live after he surrendered Riverrun. Vengeance-driven Stoneheart never tried to help Edmure when the Freys made him stand in front of Riverrun's gates with a noose around his neck. Now she might want to get hold of Edmure to punish him for betrayal.

Of course they wouldn't trust Jaime to keep his part of the bargain, any bargain - they wouldn't bargain with Jaime. They would bargain with the Lannisters (e.g. the Lannister host) for Jaime's release, using Jaime as a bargaining chip. Just as they used their Frey hostages, with no intention to set their hostage free after negotiations are complete.

[Bayard]

I am not sure about this. Rhaegar seemed to have the type of leadership that inspired loyalty from his followers, where as Jon was pretty much hated by most of the Nights Watch after one book of leadership. Of course, we are judging Rhaeger off word of mouth and memories.

what?? sure, Bowen Marsh tries to kill him... but do him and his few cronies equal the entire NW??? How?? There are plenty of examples of people who are faithful to Jon, the problem is he keeps sending them away. Actually we have very few hints as to what the average Joe in NW thinks about the lord commander. You should go to the learning to lead topics, and read some stuff. I don't want to derail this thread.

Anyway, Jaime going north and meeting Jon would be a dream. If he would figure Jon is Rhaegar's son, and pledge his sword and his life to Jon to make amends for failing his father, would be the most touching moment in the books :)

[Mulled Wino]

I obviously meant new jaime. let's be real he's not the same charachter he was

I keed, I keed....

Im grudgingly becoming a fan, i was so turned off by how many people just forgave him for everything as soon as her started being nice to brienne.

[House Draper]

I love the idea of Jaime going North and/or fighting with Jon, period. It has so much dramatic weight.

But I also love the idea of Jaime finding Sansa and the prospect of Jaime killing Cersei. I wish I could see a way for all of these possibilities to intersect by the end of the series. Maybe discovering Sansa will sever the last link between him and Cersei, maybe that will inadvertently lead to her death (Sansa as the younger and more beautiful prophecy fulfillment, anyone?).

Maybe Jaime doesn't have to be in the South to kill Cersei. Maybe he finds Sansa and heads North. Gods, I don't know, but one thing I'm sure of: there is so much potential for his story arc that I am 100% sure Lady Stoneheart won't succeed in killing him. GRRM would miss out on pure gold if he killed off Jaime in TWOW.

[Tini]

what?? sure, Bowen Marsh tries to kill him... but do him and his few cronies equal the entire NW??? How?? There are plenty of examples of people who are faithful to Jon, the problem is he keeps sending them away. Actually we have very few hints as to what the average Joe in NW thinks about the lord commander. You should go to the learning to lead topics, and read some stuff. I don't want to derail this thread.

If the opinion of Pyp and Grenn is any indication, Jon was losing the support of the average Joe as well. They were disillusioned with the man they made Lord Commander, and they were Jon's friends.

But that doesn't matter for a comparison with Rhaegar. Reading about Jon and Rhaegar, I'd say that Rhaegar had a charisma that Jon lacked. Rhaegar read some books and decided that he had to be a knight in shining armor, a leader of men. Jon walked around dejectedly waiting for execution, it was Sam who came up with the idea to save him by making him their leader. Rhaegar had a talent for making people see him as he wanted to be seen, Jon does not, and he doesn't care how people see him. In that he is closer to Stannis than to Rhaegar.

Whatever Jon and Jaime will do, I don't see Jaime pledging his sword to Jon, not even if he finds out that Jon is Rhaegar's son. Such a reveal will not help Jon as much as it will destroy Rhaegar's reputation. Most Westerosi never believed that Rhaegar was involved in Lyanna's disappearance - or that he was affected by the madness and delusions that haunted House Targaryen. If a son of Rhaegar and Lyanna shows up, they will realize that Rhaegar caused the rebellion. And once they start looking, they'll realize that he did not escape the Targaryen madness at all - he was just better at hiding it.

Anyway, as long as Tommen and Myrcella live, Jaime will be bound to them as their King's Guard, and possibly even as their regent. I don't think he'll pledge himself to another king when Tommen and Myrcella die. I think he'd rather claim Casterly Rock for himself if that happened, and try to avenge their deaths. Whether Myrcella and Tommen live or die, I don't see an alliance with Jon. They share no common goals, and Jon is allied with Stannis who is no Lannister ally.

[Bayard]

But that doesn't matter for a comparison with Rhaegar. Reading about Jon and Rhaegar, I'd say that Rhaegar had a charisma that Jon lacked. Rhaegar read some books and decided that he had to be a knight in shining armor, a leader of men. Jon walked around dejectedly waiting for execution, it was Sam who came up with the idea to save him by making him their leader. Rhaegar had a talent for making people see him as he wanted to be seen, Jon does not, and he doesn't care how people see him. In that he is closer to Stannis than to Rhaegar.

Rhaegar was well thought by everybody, but that doesn't exactly equal charisma. The Tyrells keep their main army at Storm's End and at home. Dorne has to be forced to send men. The Lannisters and Greyjoys don't help him at all... at the final battle, he mostly has soldiers from the Crown Lands, the islands and Dorne... people don't seem to want to stand by him. Anyway, Rhaegar is 24, Jon is 16 .... 8 years count a lot at that age!!!

[drayrock]

I keed, I keed....

Im grudgingly becoming a fan, i was so turned off by how many people just forgave him for everything as soon as her started being nice to brienne.

I don't forgive him but I respect how interesting of a character he is you know?

Still a muther fucker and even if he ends up helping the starks there will always be feelings of "really dude"...

[Patrick Tully]

Bran has that Dream in GoT where the Hound, Jaime and a headless Knight are all racing to save Sansa in the Riverlands. The dream seems to me too similar to the current situation to be anything other than prophetic. I am certain that is where Jaime is heading to next.

Hmm - when did you last read AGoT?

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

I would agree that the Hound, Jaime, and Gregor have each had some major effects in the paths of the 3 family members list in this section of the dream, but nothing is specific to them rescuing, let alone "racing to save" anyone.

[drayrock]

Hmm - when did you last read AGoT?

I would agree that the Hound, Jaime, and Gregor have each had some major effects in the paths of the 3 family members list in this section of the dream, but nothing is specific to them rescuing, let alone "racing to save" anyone.

I see the sun part as being dornish upon first read

[Lionofwar87]

Jamie will take the black and become LC after Jon

[Mulled Wino]

I don't forgive him but I respect how interesting of a character he is you know?

Still a muther fucker and even if he ends up helping the starks there will always be feelings of "really dude"...

I do too, I hope he does pay though. Jamie is as well written as anyone.

Yea, I for one will be a bit perturbed when Stoneheart doesn't hang him.

It that's what a Stoneheart would do. Jamie's useless to her for the most part withno swordhand. She can send Brienne on more missions, unless its to kill Cersei, which i see absolutely no reason for her to trust Jamie would do

[Tourniquet]

That's assuming he's the little brother and that the prophecy comes through. We both know how vague they can be. I do think he will though but I'm pretty positive he will head north before the series is over and have some roll in helping Jon beat the others.

I don't think there is any scenario where Jaime helps Jon fight the others. In fact he only has one hand. His days of fighting are done, despite all the practice he has go in with Payne.

[drayrock]

I don't think there is any scenario where Jaime helps Jon fight the others. In fact he only has one hand. His days of fighting are done, despite all the practice he has go in with Payne.

we'll see about that. I believe that Martin is in a way trying to show a theme of "hard work and work ethic" in jaime's storyline. Jaime had everything given to him his whole life, his riches, his looks, his status, even his swordsmanship came easy. It's now all been taken away due to the lannister's frivolousness, pride and cruelty and he's finally having to work hard to achieve the ends he wants. I think he'll eventually get better obviously not his old self, but to a respectable swordsman that the watch would gladly take in aid.

[gingerpunk]

Bran has that Dream in GoT where the Hound, Jaime and a headless Knight are all racing to save Sansa in the Riverlands. The dream seems to me too similar to the current situation to be anything other than prophetic. I am certain that is where Jaime is heading to next.

A lot of people seem to give UnCat a lot of thinking and reasoning power which I just don't see her posessing. Beric's mission before he was brought back was to bring justice to the Riverlands, it was his final mission and possible final thought. When back all he cares about is bringing justice, he forgets family, friends, his home, his experiences he just cares about justice. I don't think you could persuade him ever to change and when the Hound wins his battle he sees justice as being done and won't let him be harmed. He brings Cat back not because he feels for her but because it was treachery and he had the power to rectify some of it. To him justice was bringing her back to life.

Similarly with Cat, her last act in the world was revenge and UnCat sole thought process seems to be revenge. She has become the embodiment of that emotion. Like Beric she is going to have forgotten family and friends she just remembers those who have wronged her and want them dead. Freys, Lannisters (Jaime most of all). I don't think there's any persuading her not to kill Jaime if she had him. Even if she hears Sansa is alive and Jaime can save her she wouldn't care. UnCat's mission isn't to save Cat's children, she'd be using the brotherhood to actively search for them rather than killing Freys if it was.

I think Jaime might have to kill UnCat or maybe appeal to the compassion of the Brotherhood to help him.

I think that he brought Cat back to life because he swore a vow to Arya in ASoS that she would be reunited with her mother. I don't feel that she has much in her heart but vengeance either, though. The Red Wedding was especially treacherous and she'd been dead far too long before her resurrection to retain anything but the horror of her final moments. I don't think Ser Beric would have brought back one such as her if not for the vow he swore to her daughter.

[Varys BrightBlackflayrme]

I love the idea of Jaime going North and/or fighting with Jon, period. It has so much dramatic weight.

But I also love the idea of Jaime finding Sansa and the prospect of Jaime killing Cersei. I wish I could see a way for all of these possibilities to intersect by the end of the series. Maybe discovering Sansa will sever the last link between him and Cersei, maybe that will inadvertently lead to her death (Sansa as the younger and more beautiful prophecy fulfillment, anyone?).

Maybe Jaime doesn't have to be in the South to kill Cersei. Maybe he finds Sansa and heads North. Gods, I don't know, but one thing I'm sure of: there is so much potential for his story arc that I am 100% sure Lady Stoneheart won't succeed in killing him. GRRM would miss out on pure gold if he killed off Jaime in TWOW.

I totally agree with your comments. Sansa being the younger, more beautiful Queen replacing Cersei. It is her story arc to become a Queen. The Starks at some point will have to reunite, hopefully with a little help from Jaime, Brienne and Sandor and also to face the others when the time comes. Some good fighters will be needed. Ser UnGreg will get in the way and be killed by some or all of them and hopefully Cersei dies as a result somehow. I'm undecided about Lady Stoneheart, she could have killed Brienne and Jaime, but she didn't. Seeing her kids again might make her a little more cheerful.

[Prince of the North]

I see the sun part as being dornish upon first read

This is what I've always thought. It's not Jaime in that vision, it's Oberyn Martell who is described as being "armored like the sun". That description has obvious tie-ins to the imagery of Dorne, etc. I also think the key is that the "giant in armor made of stone" (Gregor) is said to be "looming over them both" (Sandor and Oberyn). You see, both Sandor and Oberyn lived for revenge on Gregor but I just don't see any way in which Gregor could be thought to be "looming" over Jaime. Hell, Gregor was just the biggest, meanest dog in the Lannisters kennel that they could unleash when they wanted. Jaime never had any reason to sweat Gregor.

[IceGal]

I have hoped this for a long time. That LS will force Jaime to travel North with her and the rest of her BwB. My dream scene would be Jaime Lannister fighting Roose Bolton and after killing him muttering "Jaime Lannister sends his regards."

I so hope this is true. I hadn't realized till recently that it is Roose Bolton who says these words as he puts a sword through Robb. Would be poetic justice if Jaime does the same to Roose, and utters the same words. Along similar lines, I'm liking the theory that the HM in Winterfell is Jaime.

[bogdevil]

I so hope this is true. I hadn't realized till recently that it is Roose Bolton who says these words as he puts a sword through Robb. Would be poetic justice if Jaime does the same to Roose, and utters the same words. Along similar lines, I'm liking the theory that the HM in Winterfell is Jaime.

Is the Jaime=HM theory extrapolated somewhere or is it your theory? Off to go search the HM threads, this is the first I've heard Jaime being tied to the HM

[IceGal]

Is the Jaime=HM theory extrapolated somewhere or is it your theory? Off to go search the HM threads, this is the first I've heard Jaime being tied to the HM

Not my theory. I read about it in this post:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79976-the-hooded-man-new-theorypossible-spoilers/page__st__40#entry4046915