Moments of Foreshadowing 4

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Not foreshadowing, but its opposite. Aftshadowing? Preshadowing? Anteshadowing? (Lit majors, help me out here.)

When Quentyn Martell was considering hiring the ship Adventure to take him and his companions to Meereen, he speculated that the crew would probably murder or enslave them as soon as they were out to sea.

Tyrion tells us in aDwD that after his uncle Gerion reached Volantis, half his crew deserted, and Gerion was forced to hire local replacements.

Methinks we know what happened to Gerion. (either mudered by his crew, or enslaved in Volantis)

edited for tense

[Fire Eater]

The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow

I think the HS will send the Faith Militant north to deal with Stannis and his army made up of men made up of worshippers of R'hllor and the Old Gods, akin to the Church have military orders subdue pagans and members of the Eastern Orthodox Church in the Northern Crusades.

The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him. The Mother seemed almost to shudder as the flames came licking up at her face . . . The Father was on the bottom, the first to fall.

The Starks have often drawn comparisons to the Seven. The Father is Ned, the first Stark to die in the series. The Warrior is Robb, and the Maiden is Jeyne Westerling, whose family lay athwart, or on the opposite side of the conflict against Robb; their relationship is what contributes to Robb's death. The Mother is Cat becoming Lady Stoneheart with the scars on her face.

ETA: It is also mentioned that Aegon marked the beginning of his reign the day he was anointed at the Starry Sept in Oldtown. I think the HS may ally with Aegon and anoint him king. Dany will be fighting the Faith as well as Stannis.

If Oldtown took up arms against the Dragon, Oldtown would burn, and the Hightower and the Citadel and the Starry Sept would be cast down and destroyed.

A form of irony where the Faith and Oldtown support Aegon, and Oldtown and the Starry Sept burn for it.

[GREYJOY4LYFE]

The story of the Kingsmoot that was declared void because the previous Iron King's son was not was not present could foreshadow Theon eventually taking over as King of the Iron Islands/Lord of Pike.

[coil]

The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him. The Mother seemed almost to shudder as the flames came licking up at her face . . . The Father was on the bottom, the first to fall.

The Starks have often drawn comparisons to the Seven. The Father is Ned, the first Stark to die in the series. The Warrior is Robb, and the Maiden is Jeyne Westerling, whose family lay athwart, or on the opposite side of the conflict against Robb; their relationship is what contributes to Robb's death. The Mother is Cat becoming Lady Stoneheart with the scars on her face.

I already considered the issue in a separate thread, when the search engine works again I'll post the link.

Father, first one to fall= Ned

Mother, heart pierced=Catelyn

Warrior+Maiden, burning together= Arya and Sansa - some users hypotized that in that case fire was more about dangers and adversities than real death. I don't think so, but since they are the one who traced the comparison between Arya and the warrior, the opinion deserve some highlight.

Stranger, with a hand burning=Jon, also a stranger in the family

Smith, with his head falling=Robb

No Crone, Bran won't die

No Rickon, events won't affect him.

Can't wait to link the thread, since a couple of doubts may arise.

@Ibbison from Ibben: I like it, more than the idea of Gerion becoming a pirate. Until proven otherwise, this is my new canon.

[Fire Eater]

I already considered the issue in a separate thread, when the search engine works again I'll post the link.

Father, first one to fall= Ned

Mother, heart pierced=Catelyn

Warrior+Maiden, burning together= Arya and Sansa - some users hypotized that in that case fire was more about dangers and adversities than real death. I don't think so, but since they are the one who traced the comparison between Arya and the warrior, the opinion deserve some highlight.

Stranger, with a hand burning=Jon, also a stranger in the family

Smith, with his head falling=Robb

No Crone, Bran won't die

No Rickon, events won't affect him.

Can't wait to link the thread, since a couple of doubts may arise.

@Ibbison from Ibben: I like it, more than the idea of Gerion becoming a pirate. Until proven otherwise, this is my new canon.

I agree with the Stranger being Jon, but I don't think the Smith is Robb since he doesn't have any aspects associated with it while he is more the Warrior. I don't recall the Smith being mentioned.

[coil]

I agree with the Stranger being Jon, but I don't think the Smith is Robb since he doesn't have any aspects associated with it while he is more the Warrior. I don't recall the Smith being mentioned.

Until I can't find the thread due to the forums, here there are some reflections.

Despite being a warrior, a king and a successful general, I don't recall Robb being compared to the Warrior, ever.

Neither to the Smith, to be fair!

The only Starks to be somewhat related to smiths are Jon/Arya due to the Needle thing, maybe Robb (iirc he had some smith to create his crown) and Arya again, with Gendry.

Surprisingly enough, the Stark who gets compared to the Warrior -and not to the Stranger, even more odd since her relationship with those funny guys in Braavos- is Arya... by her own mother, nonetheless (a couple of times in ACoK, one for sure is before Stannis/Renly battle).

Warrior and Maid are together in the fire, foreshadowing that Arya and Sansa will get back together?

Some users wrote that "fire", in that case, instead of foreshadowing death actually shows "difficulties": if the whole scene foreshadows anything, actually, I believe that it has something to do with death, especially since what happened to the other Starks up until now. Wasn't Ned the one to ask Arya not to kill her sister?

But then again if there's a line about an hypotetical Arya's death, it involves winter and a needle so I'm not 100% sure.

Not that the two things are mutually exclusive, however.

What if Robb becomes the Smith since there are only seven gods, and since the Crone couldn't appear (since I'm imagining it to be related to Bran)... the Smith was the only one left?

I relate the two more because of the head thing that anything else, and take Ned away from the equation since he is already related to the Father.

Poor Robb: not a POV chapter, nor a safe wedding and not even the proper god.

[ARYa_Nym]

Catelyn also saw Jon as the Warrior. She said she saw Arya only for an instant. The FM aren't warriors. I think she will assume the role on one occasion. I assume using Nymeria but Jon is more the Warrior than Arya is.

"The Warrior was Renly and Stannis, Rob and Robert, Jaime Lannister and Jon Snow. She even glimpsed Arya in those lines, just for an instant."

ETA: Robb was also the Warrior.

[coil]

Catelyn also saw Jon as the Warrior. She said she saw Arya only for an instant. The FM aren't warriors. I think she will assume the role on one occasion. I assume using Nymeria but Jon is more the Warrior than Arya is.

"The Warrior was Renly and Stannis, Rob and Robert, Jaime Lannister and Jon Snow. She even glimpsed Arya in those lines, just for an instant."

ETA: Robb was also the Warrior.

Bam, here we have it.

I would still consider more Arya since unlike the others she has no reason to be compared to warriors unlike all the other, but maybe I'm grasping at straws.

Whoever finds more hints, the better! :D

[Not a kneeler]

Hope this hasn't been mentioned. I've read all of the foreshadowing threds over the course of six months, but after almost 100 pages I could have forgotten.

From the second Brienne chapter in Feast:

Dwarf Septon at Duskendale to Brienne: "M'lady? You look sad. Are you thinking of your sister? ... .The Crone will light your way to her, never fear. The Maiden will keep her safe."

I think the Crone is UnCat - by now her hair is white and her body withered, and the Maiden may be Mya Stone or possibly Myranda, a widow scarely used.

By WoW we will know for sure.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Dwarf Septon at Duskendale to Brienne: "M'lady? You look sad. Are you thinking of your sister? ... .The Crone will light your way to her, never fear. The Maiden will keep her safe."

I think the Crone is UnCat - by now her hair is white and her body withered, and the Maiden may be Mya Stone or possibly Myranda, a widow scarely used.

I'm not sure I agree, but it's an interesting quote to think about. The dwarf doesn't say, "May the crone... ; may the maiden... " He phrases it as a statement, not a request. So there might be something here. He also is soon to die, and people near death are often reputed to have prophetic powers.

I don't see how UnCat could "...light your [her] way.." to Sansa. UnCat doesn't know where Sansa is. (UnCat could do it inadvertently, I suppose.)

Mya Stone isn't a maiden, and I don't think Myranda Royce would qualify, either. If a maiden is going to protect Sansa, it will be Brienne herself.

If this is foreshadowing, the dwarf is making a prediction/prophesy about Brienne's sister. It seems like a lot of foreshadowings in the books are true but misleading to those who treat them too simply, so it may not be referring to Sansa. Brienne doesn't have a literal sister, of course, but does she have a metaphorical sister? If yes, is it Sansa? Or could it be Arya? I don't see any possible crones or maidens around Arya, and she seems capable of protecting herself. Could it be someone else?

I'm really not very good at metaphorical stuff, so I'm just throwing out some ideas.

[Not a kneeler]

The words just seemed to leap off the page at me, and that usually means something. With all of this stuff only time will tell. The speaker seems so sure. "The crone will light your way to her" seemed to say " she will give you a worthwhile clue" rather than "she will tell you where," and Cat does know about Littlefinger.

I freely admit that neither of those ladies i mentioned are likely to be maidens.

[Bushido]

From the second Brienne chapter in Feast:

Dwarf Septon at Duskendale to Brienne: "M'lady? You look sad. Are you thinking of your sister? ... .The Crone will light your way to her, never fear. The Maiden will keep her safe."

I think the Crone is UnCat - by now her hair is white and her body withered, and the Maiden may be Mya Stone or possibly Myranda, a widow scarely used.

An interesting idea; it shapes rather nicely into the type of foreshadowing GRRM likes to use - subtle yet clear when rereading, but perfectly sitting in the scene and during narration when reading for the first time.

I'd like to suggest that Lady Stoneheart doesn't summon the Crone image, she's more in the department of Stranger. But, maybe there's another character who does fit the role of Crone. As for the Maiden part - I really like the mentioned idea, Mya Stone even though she isn't a virginal manifestation, she surely is innocent and kind. I didn't get the impression that GRRM is pushing an extreme version of any diety he created; there isn't a religious imperative for a Maiden to protect the virgins only (even though Faith's interpretation might do that, so alike to our world) . It's the wealth and responsibility of youth that is represented by Maiden.

[Fire Eater]

Eustace Osgrey's sons who died in the Battle of Redgrass Field had their graves by blackberry bushes. Illyrio has blackberries and cream and blackberry wine with Tyrion. This could foreshadow who Illyrio is actually in league with.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

If we take a bit of liberty with the Dwarf Septon's blessing and replace "sister" with "sibling", and then read it metaphorically instead of literally, the dwarf could be referring to Jaime. Jaime and Brienne both belong to royal protective orders, so they could been seen as "siblings-in-arms". Brienne is probably descended from Duncan the Tall, a member (and commander) of Jaime's own brotherhood. And Brienne seems to be replacing Jaime's sister Cersei in Jaime's affections.

In this case, UnCat does indeed lead Brienne to Jaime, and the maiden Brienne will have to protect him.

Hopefully that's just a big stretch, not a hyperextension.

[coil]

Eustace Osgrey's sons who died in the Battle of Redgrass Field had their graves by blackberry bushes. Illyrio has blackberries and cream and blackberry wine with Tyrion. This could foreshadow who Illyrio is actually in league with.

Don't know if it counts for anything, but blackberries are also mentioned in AFfC, when Lewys Piper gives some of them to Jaime.

Right after, Jaime tells him to share them with the other squires and Ilyn Payne.

@Ibbison: it may be sound a strange question, but are we sure that we really know what's Brienne's family?

Tarth is an island and a House.

Endrew Tarth died at the wall, most likely he was sent there like Thorne, Marsh and so on because of an eventual alliance with Targaryens during Robert's rebellion.

Could it be that his lands were given to someone else, most likely a successful knight?

Selwyn of Tarth and his sons seem to own a sort of title, rather than a surname.

If that was the case, she could have some relatives who are not from Tarth. The text doesn't seem to give hints, but it's something I wonder...

[Ibbison from Ibben]

@Ibbison: it may be sound a strange question, but are we sure that we really know what's Brienne's family?

Tarth is an island and a House.

Endrew Tarth died at the wall, most likely he was sent there like Thorne, Marsh and so on because of an eventual alliance with Targaryens during Robert's rebellion.

Could it be that his lands were given to someone else, most likely a successful knight?

Selwyn of Tarth and his sons seem to own a sort of title, rather than a surname.

If that was the case, she could have some relatives who are not from Tarth. The text doesn't seem to give hints, but it's something I wonder...

Interesting point. I believe she is her father's heir, and only surviving child. She never knew her mother. After her mother's death, Selwyn went though many paramours. IIRC, Brienne was 18 when we met her in aCoK, which means she would have been born before Robert's Rebellion.

The difference between Joe Tarth and Joe of Tarth does seem strange; then again, Selwyn is commonly described as "the Evenstar" and we have no clue what that is about.

If I understand you correctly, you think it is possible that the Lordship of Tarth changed hands as a result of Robert's Rebellion, right? The Stormlords certainly were split in the war, and Robert made quite a few changes afterwards (including the Conningtons). Could be. Or it could have changed hands sometime before, and the claimants took different sides during Robert's Rebellion. But I'm sure Brienne currently has no siblings, so I'm playing around with the term sister.

In the end, the dwarf probably is referring to Sansa, but Crone and Maiden could be something else. Ship names, perhaps. House sigils. The name of a dog or horse. Like I said, I'm not that good at the metaphorical stuff, but I'm giving it a shot because I didn't notice the quote at first, and Not a Kneeler showed me something I missed.

[Eir]

This must have been covered already, but just in case, Val had this to say to Jon about Shireen:

“The grey death sleeps, only to wake again…You know nothing, Jon Snow.”

Greyscale epidemic 2.0 coming to Westeros!

Grey is also associated with the Starks...House Stark may be considered "dead" by many in Westeros, the family and their loyalists defeated and broken, but they're only "sleeping," readying themselves to "wake again."

[Fire Eater]

This must have been covered already, but just in case, Val had this to say to Jon about Shireen:

Greyscale epidemic 2.0 coming to Westeros!

Grey is also associated with the Starks...House Stark may be considered "dead" by many in Westeros, the family and their loyalists defeated and broken, but they're only "sleeping," readying themselves to "wake again."

Nice catch.

Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin's Roost again. To end the Usurper's line for good and all, and put Rhaegar's son upon the Iron Throne.

I think the Usurper at this moment is Cersei who usurped the throne from Robert and the Baratheons. Given Maggy's prophecy, Cersei's line will end with the deaths of her children. After that, Rhaegar's son, Jon, will be put upon the IT.

[King of Winters]

Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin's Roost again. To end the Usurper's line for good and all, and put Rhaegar's son upon the Iron Throne.

I think the Usurper in this moment is Cersei who usurped the throne from Robert and the Baratheons. Given Maggy's prophecy, Cersei's line will end with the deaths of her children. After that, Rhaegar's son, Jon, will be put upon the IT.

I'd actually prefer Jon to be just King in the North.

[Dragonstar]

Potential foreshadowing from the epilogue in aDwD:

Petyr Baelish had a gift for conjuring dragons from the air