Moments of Foreshadowing 4

[Targaryen_Rubies]

I don't believe this one's been mentioned but in SoS it in a Sansa chapter(pg.800 American paperback) says, "There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two."

I'm not great at this but I thought I'd leave it here for you guys to make sense of.

[chrisdaw]

Actually, Lyonel Strong died about a decade before the Dance of the Dragons took place according to the wiki. Rhaenyra then married some as yet unknown member of House Targareyn, who fathered the last two of her sons. Just pointing that out.

Looking at the wiki, I also found it interesting that Rhaenyra died very early on in the Dance of the Dragons, but the fighting continued on in her son Aegon the Dragonbane's name. So if Dany is the Rhaenyra equivalent in the 2nd Dance of the Dragons war, it doesn't seem to bode well for her chances of survival.

What I take most from the first Dance is that both forces lose their leaders and come to a peace seeing as there is only one likely contender for the throne left. I don't think Dany is disposable so soon whilst Aegon may be, but suppose both sides lose their leader somehow, then what?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

What I take most from the first Dance is that both forces lose their leaders and come to a peace seeing as there is only one likely contender for the throne left. I don't think Dany is disposable so soon whilst Aegon may be, but suppose both sides lose their leader somehow, then what?

If there is a second DotD and the characters of Dany and fAegon parallel Rhaenyra and Aegon II, wouldn't the equivalent of Aegon III (the Dragonbane) be Jon Snow? Interestingly, Aegon III is described as "always wearing black", while Jon tells Robb at their final parting that black "was always my color"

I don't necessarily believe that we'll see Dany killed off, but there is a parallel if she does.

[J. Stargaryen]

If there is a second DotD and the characters of Dany and fAegon parallel Rhaenyra and Aegon II, wouldn't the equivalent of Aegon III (the Dragonbane) be Jon Snow? Interestingly, Aegon III is described as "always wearing black", while Jon tells Robb at their final parting that black "was always my color"

I don't necessarily believe that we'll see Dany killed off, but there is a parallel if she does.

Hey now, that's interesting.

[Pod The Impaler]

In ACOK:

Theon goes home to Pyke.

Instead of being given a room in his old room, he is put in Pyke's "Bloody Keep".

He might have been more impressed if he had not known that these were the very chambers which gave the Bloody Keep its name. A thousand years before, the sons of the River King had been slaughtered here, hacked to bits in their beds so that pieces of their bodies might be sent back to their father on the mainland.

So the children of the Riverlands were killed by the Ironborn basically to send a message.

Later of course, Theon "kills" Bran and Rickon (children of a Tully mother) to send a "message" as well.

However, in a grim irony, Theon gets similarly used by the Boltons, who send scraps of flesh to the Ironborn - "I send you each a piece of a prince..." as a message of their own.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I don't believe this one's been mentioned but in SoS it in a Sansa chapter(pg.800 American paperback) says, "There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two."

I'm not great at this but I thought I'd leave it here for you guys to make sense of.

I recall someone analyzing that sequence before. It was definitely in one of the past Moments of Foreshadowing threads, I don't know which one though. I think the poster who did it said that the two cloud castles represented the Lannister-Tyrell alliance (based on the colors) crumbling into ruins, with the Dornish rising behind them (b/c of the rising sun).

ETA: I found the original analysis by chrisdaw. It was in Moments of Foreshadowing 2, pg. 21 post # 412. That thread's locked now, so I can't use the quote button on his post to show it here though.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

I recall someone analyzing that sequence before. It was definitely in one of the past Moments of Foreshadowing threads, I don't know which one though. I think the poster who did it said that the two cloud castles represented the Lannister-Tyrell alliance (based on the colors) crumbling into ruins, with the Dornish rising behind them (b/c of the rising sun).

ETA: I found the original analysis by chrisdaw. It was in Moments of Foreshadowing 2, pg. 21 post # 412. That thread's locked now, so I can't use the quote button on his post to show it here though.

Ok, well thanks for answering. I've been reading this thread for a while and couldn't recall if this had been done.

[MysteryNinja]

I don't know if this has been discussed in this thread before, but during my last re-read of AGOT, this passage stood out for me.

Its in Jon I, AGOT, it happens at the feast in honour of king Robert in Winterfell

Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after the serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with long yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride. Ghost went back to his meal.

Maybe I'm over-analyzing it a bit, but I think this passage contains a lot of interesting parallels that can be made.

The first thing that sprung to my mind was the Clegane connection: we have dogs, the black and yellow, and the indication of large size (it's probably just a normal size dog, but the words are there). It could point to a showdown in the future involving Robert Strong, or Sandor Clegane.

But with a bit more of abstraction, a case could also be made for an allusion to the Baratheons, with the black and yellow(gold).

On the other side of the 'battle' we have direwolf pup Ghost, who could represent Jon, the Starks in general, the Old Gods (weirwood colours), or, with the 'hot red eyes', even the Red God/Melisandre.

(I was wondering, are Ghost eyes commonly dubbed as 'hot red'? I never noticed this particular description until I started to transcribe this passage :read: )

I have no idea what the chicken could be though :), and I can't think of any links with events in the next books (well, maybe the stand-offs between Stannis the would-be king and Jon the commander at the wall, but can't come up with concrete textual examples right now).

So maybe future foreshadowing - or me being too nitpicky.

[shiola]

"[black] was always my colour." Jon to Robb in GoT.

Targaryen color is black...

[FittleLinger]

I don't know if this has been discussed in this thread before, but during my last re-read of AGOT, this passage stood out for me.

Its in Jon I, AGOT, it happens at the feast in honour of king Robert in Winterfell

Maybe I'm over-analyzing it a bit, but I think this passage contains a lot of interesting parallels that can be made.

The first thing that sprung to my mind was the Clegane connection: we have dogs, the black and yellow, and the indication of large size (it's probably just a normal size dog, but the words are there). It could point to a showdown in the future involving Robert Strong, or Sandor Clegane.

But with a bit more of abstraction, a case could also be made for an allusion to the Baratheons, with the black and yellow(gold).

On the other side of the 'battle' we have direwolf pup Ghost, who could represent Jon, the Starks in general, the Old Gods (weirwood colours), or, with the 'hot red eyes', even the Red God/Melisandre.

(I was wondering, are Ghost eyes commonly dubbed as 'hot red'? I never noticed this particular description until I started to transcribe this passage :read: )

I have no idea what the chicken could be though :), and I can't think of any links with events in the next books (well, maybe the stand-offs between Stannis the would-be king and Jon the commander at the wall, but can't come up with concrete textual examples right now).

So maybe future foreshadowing - or me being too nitpicky.

I want to share thouthts on this. First, I had seen this mentioned, but Never the Baratheon connection. It does seem far fetched, but anyway, let's look at it. In this sense, the bitch might be Robert, and Ghost - Jon. Chicken, I think, might represent fear (are you chicken?). The relationship Jon and Robert never had is solely based on fear. First, Robert claims he despises Targaryens, even the children as they are "dragonspawn", but Robert is not really the kind of guy to passionately hate a little child - he, in reality, is afraid they are a threat to his reign. And then we have Ned and Lyanna's fear of what Robert would to to the child, and that's why they kept it secret - and that's why Jon is alive. That's one interpretation.

Another one is the bitch being Ramsay. You know, he and his girls, and the dog here is not just a dog, it's a bitch specifically. This might foreshadow the future Ramsay - Jon encounter we know (Pink letter), which, if written by Ramsay, I think was provoked by fear and despair on his side. And also, that there is no confrontation between the bitch and Ghost might mean that the NW brothers stopping Jon from marching down (the hard way) and thus preventing such an encounter, might be actually for the better, as Jon, after surviving, will keep his eyes on the (real) prize.

ETA: A mongrel is an unintentionally cross-bred dog, often used as a degrading term, and those fit Ramsay too much.

[Fire Eater]

I don't know if this has been discussed in this thread before, but during my last re-read of AGOT, this passage stood out for me.

Its in Jon I, AGOT, it happens at the feast in honour of king Robert in Winterfell

Maybe I'm over-analyzing it a bit, but I think this passage contains a lot of interesting parallels that can be made.

The first thing that sprung to my mind was the Clegane connection: we have dogs, the black and yellow, and the indication of large size (it's probably just a normal size dog, but the words are there). It could point to a showdown in the future involving Robert Strong, or Sandor Clegane.

But with a bit more of abstraction, a case could also be made for an allusion to the Baratheons, with the black and yellow(gold).

On the other side of the 'battle' we have direwolf pup Ghost, who could represent Jon, the Starks in general, the Old Gods (weirwood colours), or, with the snip

and watched his direwolf devour the chicken.

"Queen Cersei and Queen Margaery are fighting over the little king like two bitches with a chicken bone"

Cersei is a Baratheon by marriage so her colors are by tradition the Baratheon house colors.

ETA:

Another line from the former scene interests me.

She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride.

Cersei won't go without some measure to save her pride, possibly burn KL to the ground to hollow the victory of her enemies.

[Harlaw's Book]

Another possible interpretation for the Ghost-Dog confrontation could be that it foreshadows Theon backing down from Jon. Black and yellow are Greyjoy colors too, and Ramsay essentially turned Theon into one of his dogs.

[MysteryNinja]

Another possible interpretation for the Ghost-Dog confrontation could be that it foreshadows Theon backing down from Jon. Black and yellow are Greyjoy colors too, and Ramsay essentially turned Theon into one of his dogs.

Totally forgot the Grejoy colours :blushing:, it certainly opens up other interpretations...

There are theories that say Theon might be sacrificed by Stannis, and as I said in my original post, Ghost can be connected to the Old Gods as well as the Red God so... pick your choice, lol?

It doesn't really fit the 'fight' setting of the passage, though.

/Start crackpot - So, maybe they will want to sacrifice Theon, he will be in the know of it, and first embrace it as a release from his pain, to notice when the moment's there, that he doesn't want to die after all /end crackpot :P

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I was involved in a discussion about the Targaryen eggs on another thread where I elaborated on the possible significance of fAegon not having been given a dragon egg by Illyrio, while Daenerys received three. Set aside the fact that Illyrio obviously did not know the eggs were gong to hatch-- we know from Dunk & Egg that Targ babies were given eggs long after the expectation of them hatching had fallen away. But we are also told that Blackfyres do not get eggs. Therefore it is possible that Illyrio's failure to give an egg to fAegon foreshadows his Blackfyre origins. It's a negative (from the standpoint of absence) Chekhov's gun scenario: we are shown Aegon's lack of an egg (vs Dany's possession of three in spite of their having the same benefactor) and we are given (via D&E) the tidbit that in the past Targaryens were given eggs and Blackfyres were not. Those two pieces of information taken together could tell the reader something important about fAegon.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Meta: In a recent interview (ill try to find it, but there's a bunch out today) Grrm said in winds he needs to return some ravens to their rookery

Bran: we could all be ravens in Measter Luwin's rookery, the Starks are coming home in Winds

[Ragnorak]

“He was not born wealthy. In the world as I have seen it, no man grows rich by kindness. The warlocks said the second treason would be for gold. What does Illyrio Mopatis love more than gold?”

I've mostly surrendered on figuring out Dany's three treasons but...

If Aegon is Illyrio's son than Illyrio would love blood more than gold.

[Fire Eater]

Devan was a skinny lad of some twelve years, brown of hair and eye.

Frog, the squire, was the youngest of the three, and the least impressive, a solemn, stocky lad, brown of hair and eye.

Poor Devan, it seems the gods aren't finished torturing Davos

Next you will be offering me a suit of magic armor and a palace in Valyria

I'd sooner have a palace in Valyria

This may be crackpot, but does this foreshadow Tyrion visiting the ruins of Valyria?

[Team_Rob]

In AGOT, Robert Arryn says he wants to see the bad man (Tyrion) fly. This could be foreshadowing to him getting a dragon.

[Castellan]

I think a contributing factor would be his promise to Catelyn Stark to never take arms against Starks or Tullys ever again.

Re breaking Riverrun without taking up arms... he is also proving he has the blood of Lann the Trickster, just as much as Tyrion has.

[Castellan]

Meta: In a recent interview (ill try to find it, but there's a bunch out today) Grrm said in winds he needs to return some ravens to their rookery

Bran: we could all be ravens in Measter Luwin's rookery, the Starks are coming home in Winds

I would interpret ravens returning to their rookery as the same saying as 'chickens coming home to roost' ... as Malcolm X said about JFKs assassination ... I would say he is hinting at payback for the Red Wedding.