Best Warrior in Westeros

[Petyr Baller]

By best warrior, we mean like a "Warrior" in a role-playing game? Because I would bet good money on Jaqen H'ghar or Melisandre to take on any opponent even in a duel.

[dornishprince]

I can't rank them in order, because as someone else said different situations fit different people.

Bronn definitely makes my list.

Jaime

Brienne

Victarion

Areo Hotah

The Cleganes

The Tyrell brothers

Mance

Barriston Selmy

Oberyn

Beric Dondarrion (He makes the list because even though he might not be amazing 1v1, he's gotta be good to survive as long as he did, and he got very close to beating the hound)

[Faceless Assassin]

Sandor's top for me, he would beat Jaime with power, and Gregor with speed.

Probably followed by:

2. Jaime

3. Old Barristan

4. Garlan Tyrell

5. Gregor

[eggs]

By best warrior, we mean like a "Warrior" in a role-playing game? Because I would bet good money on Jaqen H'ghar or Melisandre to take on any opponent even in a duel.

spontaneous combustion is a bitch.

[dornishprince]

spontaneous combustion is a bitch.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

[Artos Stark]

Another recycled thread

1) Jaime (two hands)

2) Garlan

3) The Mountain (most feared man on the battle field, terrorizes the riverlands)

4) The Hound

5) Bronn

6) Lyn Corbray

7) Mance

8) Andrik the Unsmiling

9) Halfhand

10) Bronze Yohn

Notice that i didn't include Barristan because he is in Essos and Dayne because he was dead at the start of the series. I certainly think that Robert would be somewhere in the top 10 if we are counting him in his prime.

There are some good knights in the making in Essos, from what I've read Tumaco Lho seems to be a great swordsman and the Red Lamb is an absolute beast with his battle mace. Those guys will likely make the list at some point in the future when they actually come to Westeros.

[princeimrahil]

I think it's useful to group them into categories:

A. The "By Reputation Only" Crowd

People talk a lot about these guys, but we don't get much evidence of their skill in terms of actual feats of arms

*Garlan Tyrell

*Darkstar

*Lyn Corbray

I rank Tyrell over Darkstar because Loras rates him highly, and Loras is pretty good. Darkstar I put over Corbray on the basis of him being a Dayne (that has to count for something).

B. The "Not Ready for Prime Time Fighters"

These folks are good, but not legendary - against most fighters in Westeros, they would be a terror. Against really phenomenal swordsmen, though, they're not going to make it.

*Victarion Greyjoy

*Brienne of Tarth

*Bronn of the Blackwater

I put Victarion on top because he seems pretty good at ignoring pain - anybody who just catches a sword without even blinking has a true killer instinct. Brienne comes next because (and someone will have to double-check my on this) she never seems to get tired in a fight (Jaime comments on how she keeps coming at him full out, but he's beginning to get fatigued, I think). Not as good as being able to shrug off pain, but a real asset for a cautious and skilled fighter. Bronn comes in last because his greatest strength is more strategic/tactical - he's great at sizing people up and evaluating their combat methods. And what's more, he never stops doing this; every person he meets, he studies carefully so that he'll know exactly what to expect, and what the best plan for beating them will be. Sometimes, this means not fighting them at all (e.g. Gregor). Bronn is smart enough to stay out of fights he can't win.

C. "Living Legends"

*These people are at the top of their class - lesser swordsmen don't stand a chance against them.

*Barristan Selmy

*Strong Belwas

*Mance Rayder

Honorable Mention: Jaime Lannister

Barristan still has to top the list for me. He has performed far too many amazing exploits to not get the number one spot. That said, by the end of ADWD, even he is beginning to notice his age - I think in the next few books we'll see him taken down (figuratively or literally).

Strong Belwas might seem like an odd choice for the next spot, but I'm choosing to accept as truth his claim that not only has he never lost a battle, but that he lets his opponents wound him before he kills them. That takes a tremendous degree of skill, and also supports the general impression that he's tough-as-nails - any one of those wounds could easily have gotten infected and killed him, but he's still kicking (even after eating a bowl full of poison). He also seems equally skilled against armored and unarmored opponents - he adapts his tactics to Mereen's champion perfectly, despite what I assume has been a life spent primarily fighting foes on foot, without armor.

Mance gets the number three spot because, as many people have pointed out, he's beaten a LOT of fighters. The list isn't quite as impressive as Selmy's, and they lack the same quality of weapons/training that adversaries of other contenders have had to face. Still, there's a reason why he's the King.

Jaime gets an honorable mention because I believe he's going to come back with a vengeance, despite the loss of his hand. I think that Qhorin Halfhand was meant to set up the possibility that a fighter could recover from such an injury and end up even better - and Jaime is, let's not forget, something of a prodigy with the sword, and he's still in his prime. By the end of the series, I expect to see some awesome stuff out of him.

[Jon and Ghost]

Just by reading forums, you'd think Darkstar is a big main character or something. Not sure why this is the case when he really only appears in a couple of pages in the entire series so far.

[princeimrahil]

Beric Dondarrion (He makes the list because even though he might not be amazing 1v1, he's gotta be good to survive as long as he did, and he got very close to beating the hound)

I'm not sure anyone would describe what Beric did as "surviving."

[Ser Creighton]

Why is Hotah even getting mentioned, the guy didn't do anything. It was Hotah and over a dozen men with crossbows and spears vs. Oakheart. He kills Oakheart after he was hit in one shoulder with a bolt trapping his arm and shield, not to mention having been shot with a crossbow at close range, kills two men, gets thrown from his horse who gets killed by spears and crossbows, and while getting up dazed and injured, Hotah hit him in the head with an axe. So with help from over a dozen men he beat an injured downed opponent. How is that impressive?

[Artos Stark]

I think it's useful to group them into categories:

A. The "By Reputation Only" Crowd

People talk a lot about these guys, but we don't get much evidence of their skill in terms of actual feats of arms

*Garlan Tyrell

*Darkstar

*Lyn Corbray

I rank Tyrell over Darkstar because Loras rates him highly, and Loras is pretty good. Darkstar I put over Corbray on the basis of him being a Dayne (that has to count for something).

B. The "Not Ready for Prime Time Fighters"

These folks are good, but not legendary - against most fighters in Westeros, they would be a terror. Against really phenomenal swordsmen, though, they're not going to make it.

*Victarion Greyjoy

*Brienne of Tarth

*Bronn of the Blackwater

I put Victarion on top because he seems pretty good at ignoring pain - anybody who just catches a sword without even blinking has a true killer instinct. Brienne comes next because (and someone will have to double-check my on this) she never seems to get tired in a fight (Jaime comments on how she keeps coming at him full out, but he's beginning to get fatigued, I think). Not as good as being able to shrug off pain, but a real asset for a cautious and skilled fighter. Bronn comes in last because his greatest strength is more strategic/tactical - he's great at sizing people up and evaluating their combat methods. And what's more, he never stops doing this; every person he meets, he studies carefully so that he'll know exactly what to expect, and what the best plan for beating them will be. Sometimes, this means not fighting them at all (e.g. Gregor). Bronn is smart enough to stay out of fights he can't win.

C. "Living Legends"

*These people are at the top of their class - lesser swordsmen don't stand a chance against them.

*Barristan Selmy

*Strong Belwas

*Mance Rayder

Honorable Mention: Jaime Lannister

Barristan still has to top the list for me. He has performed far too many amazing exploits to not get the number one spot. That said, by the end of ADWD, even he is beginning to notice his age - I think in the next few books we'll see him taken down (figuratively or literally).

Strong Belwas might seem like an odd choice for the next spot, but I'm choosing to accept as truth his claim that not only has he never lost a battle, but that he lets his opponents wound him before he kills them. That takes a tremendous degree of skill, and also supports the general impression that he's tough-as-nails - any one of those wounds could easily have gotten infected and killed him, but he's still kicking (even after eating a bowl full of poison). He also seems equally skilled against armored and unarmored opponents - he adapts his tactics to Mereen's champion perfectly, despite what I assume has been a life spent primarily fighting foes on foot, without armor.

Mance gets the number three spot because, as many people have pointed out, he's beaten a LOT of fighters. The list isn't quite as impressive as Selmy's, and they lack the same quality of weapons/training that adversaries of other contenders have had to face. Still, there's a reason why he's the King.

Jaime gets an honorable mention because I believe he's going to come back with a vengeance, despite the loss of his hand. I think that Qhorin Halfhand was meant to set up the possibility that a fighter could recover from such an injury and end up even better - and Jaime is, let's not forget, something of a prodigy with the sword, and he's still in his prime. By the end of the series, I expect to see some awesome stuff out of him.

Several things here. First, I also put Garlan over Darkstar but not because Loras says so. Garlan is Loras' brother which means that he has looked up to him for years and is blood bound to overrate him, I do however believe that Garlan is one of the great swordsman in Westeros. That being said, Loras is certainly not a great swordsman and I really don't think he has much expertise on the subject, the guy has dedicated his life to the joist. As for Darkstar, he has a great reputation and even The Red Viper was afraid of the guy. As for Lyn Corbray, his reputation comes straight from battle situations in which he cut down great knights and I believe KG as well, of all of the guys I believe his reputation is the best deserved because he is the most battle tested.

As for your top tier, I couldn't disagree more. Jaime is far and away the top of the class, he is for sure the top sword at the start of the series and would cut down any of the men listed with relative ease. Barristan is still a very skilled fighter, so I agree with that one.

Strong Belwas is the worse one you have on there, any good knight in Westeros cuts him down in battle. The guy is a pit fighter and not skilled at killing knights, now I know that you will mention the man from Mereen but this is no Westerosi knight, he is a pampered son from Mereen who is used to killing slaves. I also don't think he is the greatest pitt figher there is, I believe Khrazz is better.

Mance is a great swordsman but I wouldn't rate him above the likes of the Hound.

[Artos Stark]

Why is Hotah even getting mentioned, the guy didn't do anything. It was Hotah and over a dozen men with crossbows and spears vs. Oakheart. He kills Oakheart after he was hit in one shoulder with a bolt trapping his arm and shield, not to mention having been shot with a crossbow at close range, kills two men, gets thrown from his horse who gets killed by spears and crossbows, and while getting up dazed and injured, Hotah hit him in the head with an axe. So with help from over a dozen men he beat an injured downed opponent. How is that impressive?

I agree I don't rate Hotah as highly as others. I do however think that he is a very skilled fighter (dedicating his life to it) and could have defeated Oakheart on his own.

I might add that even he fears Darkstar which says a lot about the Darkstar that both Hotah and the Red Viper fear him.

[princeimrahil]

Several things here. First, I also put Garlan over Darkstar but not because Loras says so. Garlan is Loras' brother which means that he has looked up to him for years and is blood bound to overrate him, I do however believe that Garlan is one of the great swordsman in Westeros. That being said, Loras is certainly not a great swordsman and I really don't think he has much expertise on the subject, the guy has dedicated his life to the joist. As for Darkstar, he has a great reputation and even The Red Viper was afraid of the guy. As for Lyn Corbray, his reputation comes straight from battle situations in which he cut down great knights and I believe KG as well, of all of the guys I believe his reputation is the best deserved because he is the most battle tested.

As for your top tier, I couldn't disagree more. Jaime is far and away the top of the class, he is for sure the top sword at the start of the series and would cut down any of the men listed with relative ease. Barristan is still a very skilled fighter, so I agree with that one.

Strong Belwas is the worse one you have on there, any good knight in Westeros cuts him down in battle. The guy is a pit fighter and not skilled at killing knights, now I know that you will mention the man from Mereen but this is no Westerosi knight, he is a pampered son from Mereen who is used to killing slaves. I also don't think he is the greatest pitt figher there is, I believe Khrazz is better.

Mance is a great swordsman but I wouldn't rate him above the likes of the Hound.

I was limiting my commentary to "active fighters in the condition they are in at the end of ADWD." So I left out the Hound, Gregor, Dayne, etc. Jaime, by the end of ADWD, is improving, but I don't think he's back up to where he was before (though as I said, I think he will get there).

As for Garlan/Loras - Loras kills several Rainbow Guard like they're nothing. That's no mean feat. Jaime also comments that he sees a lot of talent and potential in Loras - so I think Loras is good, just not outstandingly great (you'll notice he's not on my list, though then again, he's dead/maimed at the end of book 5).

I still hold to my Strong Belwas ranking, but I realize I should withdraw him because the post was "in Westeros," not in the entire setting.

[eggs]

Am I the only one who forgot about Vic's new burned arm?

[Artos Stark]

I was limiting my commentary to "active fighters in the condition they are in at the end of ADWD." So I left out the Hound, Gregor, Dayne, etc. Jaime, by the end of ADWD, is improving, but I don't think he's back up to where he was before (though as I said, I think he will get there).

As for Garlan/Loras - Loras kills several Rainbow Guard like they're nothing. That's no mean feat. Jaime also comments that he sees a lot of talent and potential in Loras - so I think Loras is good, just not outstandingly great (you'll notice he's not on my list, though then again, he's dead/maimed at the end of book 5).

I still hold to my Strong Belwas ranking, but I realize I should withdraw him because the post was "in Westeros," not in the entire setting.

Ok that makes more sense to why the Hound, Jaime, etc. were left out.

As for Loras killing the Rainbow guard, anyone can be killed if they aren't armed and read. Loras attacked the Rainbow guard when no one was expecting it, they weren't armed and at the ready, he kind of just flew off the handle and attacked them. Loras does have potential, he is the best jouster in the realm, but he is no swordsman. I would take probably 20 or more people that we've seen over hiim.

As for Strong Belwas, I just don't see his fighting style working against knights in Westeros.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

Loras saying he is better is one thing, having anything other than Loras' word in the text to back it up is another.

Well there is the fact that we've never seen Loras do anything of note in an actual battle besides have his pretty boy face burned off and lose a shitton of men in what should have been an easy victory, while Garlan is described as training against 3-4 men and at Blackwater killed Guyard Morrigen, who had a reputation as a really good knight and led Stannis' vanguard.

As for Garlan/Loras - Loras kills several Rainbow Guard like they're nothing. That's no mean feat.

He killed Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy in a fit of rage because his boyfriend died and he stupidly took it out on them. Likely they didn't even have time to draw their swords.

[otherbeef]

He killed Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy in a fit of rage because his boyfriend died and he stupidly took it out on them. Likely they didn't even have time to draw their swords.

are we sure about this? They were primed and ready when Catelyn and Brienne fled, did we ever find out whether Loras was the first to get there or if they weren't ready to fight? seems unlikely.

also Garlan went crazy at the Blackwater and killed Guyard Morrigen in single combat, another of the Rainbow guard and possibly Stannis' best swordsman. Both the Tyrells seem legit to me.

[Robert's Rebellion]

Loras fought with boiling oil poured on him at dragonstone... definetely one of the toughest

He unhorsed the mountain in the 1st book and became a member of the kingsguard at like sixteen

Easily the best right now, even if he is a flamer

[Djinn]

Without armour, most of these knight wouldn't survive clashing with a pitfighter champion. Khrazz would have killed Barristan three times over, without Platemail. So if the argument is skill, gladiators and Dothraki should pose a serious chalenge. If you count full equipment, then guys that don't use full plate don't stand much of a chance(like Mance).

[Addam of Hull]

Without armour, most of these knight wouldn't survive clashing with a pitfighter champion. Khrazz would have killed Barristan three times over, without Platemail. So if the argument is skill, gladiators and Dothraki should pose a serious chalenge. If you count full equipment, then guys that don't use full plate don't stand much of a chance(like Mance).

Utilizing armor is part of a Knight's skillset, though. Their entire fighting style is based around lances and long swords and various kinds of armor. If you deny Barristan his platemail, it'd be much the same as denying Drogo an arakh.